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Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

economist.com

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Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#311

Post by heuiop »

fatihdonmez wrote: post #308
BeetleB wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm turkish and because of hidden arabic imperialism and assimilation rooted deep in islam, I refuse to use even arabic words which are common in turkish. Ahem, but I think most Arabs complain about Turkish imperialism. I don't think Turkey was ever conquered by the Arabs, but the reverse is true.

They can complain whatever they want to but here are the facts. Turks brutally were murdered almost 70-80 years to turned to be a muslim and start believing arab god to survive. Turks adopted all the arabic culture/traditions as part of islam. Turks used arabic alphabet along with the bunch of arabic words. Even nowadays current government is pushing more islamic/arabic values to turkish people as part of islamizatio…

> Turks brutally were murdered almost 70-80 years to turned to be a muslim and start believing arab god to survive.

When did this happen? What year/century are you talking about?

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#312

Post by fatihdonmez »

heuiop wrote: post #311
fatihdonmez wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can complain whatever they want to but here are the facts. Turks brutally were murdered almost 70-80 years to turned to be a muslim and start believing arab god to survive. Turks adopted all the arabic culture/traditions as part of islam. Turks used arabic alphabet along with the bunch of arabic words. Even nowadays current government is pushing more islamic/arabic values to turkish people as part of islamizatio…

> Turks brutally were murdered almost 70-80 years to turned to be a muslim and start believing arab god to survive. When did this happen? What year/century are you talking about?

early islamic period around 7th centuries; you can find more information here; https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Arabs-forced-Turks-to-...

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#313

Post by int_19h »

kissickas wrote: post #217
int_19h wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabic (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba) which is the same root (k,t,b) and with simple rules you can discover all those words or even invent them if not used previously I don't see why the word for "author" has to be derived from the same root as "book", logically speaking. There are a great deal more things than books that have authors. The reason why this partic…

> There are a great deal more things than books that have authors And those things all have their own words for their authors, as well. poetry - sha3r poet - shaa3r composition (the noun of the verb) - ta2leef composition (the thing written) - mu2allaf composer - mu2allef letter, correspondance - resala messenger - rasool correspondent (like a news reporter) - murasel You can also use kaateb for the author of a lette…

So then the correct translation was "writer"?

Note, by the way, that your examples showcase the same pattern in English - the author of "poetry" is a "poet", the author of a "composition" is a "composer" etc.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#314

Post by pknerd »

BeetleB wrote: post #277
theprotocol wrote: post #64

I am a native Arabic speaker. It is an awful language. As the article points out, the dialects are just too numerous for it to gain any kind of critical mass of adoption. But beyond that, I'd say the biggest problem with it is that there are just so many exceptions that knowing the rules of grammar is nowhere near enough to speak it correctly. edit: I also wanted to mention that written Arabic differs from spoken Ara…

I've dabbled in Arabic, Spanish and Urdu. When it comes to this: >But beyond that, I'd say the biggest problem with it is that there are just so many exceptions that knowing the rules of grammar is nowhere near enough to speak it correctly. My experience was that English and Urdu are much worse grammarwise. In the latter, it's not so much that there are exceptions to rules - it's that the rules are the exception. Mos…

Being a native Urdu speaker I second you.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#315

Post by diminish »

browsercoin wrote: post #295
User23 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely the Dutch all seem to speak better English than most Americans and even Brits.

Dutch calls Danish a throat condition! Highly ironic, this!

so Danish call the northern neighbors the same?

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#316

Post by v_lisivka »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #193
isolli wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of Czech, where a fixed list of prefixes can be used to modify the meaning of any verb, with very creative possibilities! https://mluvtecesky.net/en/grammar/prefixes

Same in Polish, with some curse words providing very flexible bases for every situation.

Same in many other indo-european languages. See Language tree: https://images.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/files/196.jpg

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#317

Post by kissickas »

int_19h wrote: post #313
kissickas wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a great deal more things than books that have authors And those things all have their own words for their authors, as well. poetry - sha3r poet - shaa3r composition (the noun of the verb) - ta2leef composition (the thing written) - mu2allaf composer - mu2allef letter, correspondance - resala messenger - rasool correspondent (like a news reporter) - murasel You can also use kaateb for the author of a lette…

So then the correct translation was "writer"? Note, by the way, that your examples showcase the same pattern in English - the author of "poetry" is a "poet", the author of a "composition" is a "composer" etc.

Yes, kaateb can be translated as "author" or "writer" or "scribe" etc.

I was more replying to your comment than continuing GP's argument, but I believe what they were trying to say is that the system used in Arabic is very regular and predictable. If I didn't know English, I might say that the person who writes poems is a poemer. Or a poetrier. I might try to use "to poetry" as a verb.

I wouldn't really make that argument because through learning Esperanto I realized that a truly logical language would make nearly no sense. You can't just invent any word you like in Esperanto, although it is sometimes billed that way, and you can't in Arabic. But at least it's very predictable and, at least, you can derive the meanings of an already-written text fairly easily.

The problem (touched upon in the OP) is that each dialect has its own domain of vocabulary, so even apart from foreign/native language influences, the classical vocabulary that sticks around in each dialect varies widely from one place to another. Some people use the verb for "work" to mean "work" and some use the verb for "preoccupy oneself" to mean "work."

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#318

Post by selimthegrim »

pknerd wrote: post #314
BeetleB wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've dabbled in Arabic, Spanish and Urdu. When it comes to this: >But beyond that, I'd say the biggest problem with it is that there are just so many exceptions that knowing the rules of grammar is nowhere near enough to speak it correctly. My experience was that English and Urdu are much worse grammarwise. In the latter, it's not so much that there are exceptions to rules - it's that the rules are the exception. Mos…

Being a native Urdu speaker I second you.

If everyone spoke Lakhnavi Urdu I’d get it, but my impression (heritage speaker) is that Urdu in Pakistan today at least is less grammatically demanding in comparison because people who don’t speak it as a home language have had to learn it. I would think reading and writing would be the problem compared to English. Can you give an example besides memorizing genders where there’s a noticeable lack of grammar that impedes learning?
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