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As a female engineer, I am not diversity

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Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#121

Post by Chris2048 »

nil-value wrote: post #98
Will_Parker wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One personal example was pointing out that referring to "white brogrammer culture" is sexist, racist, and insulting. I didn't get fired, but I had to talk to a few people in HR because of it. Here's a tech CEO claiming: "In today’s climate, failure to express a progressive stance on diversity can make you a professional pariah" https://www.fastcompany.com/40524955/i-accidentally-built-a-... Being so sure my claim isn…

Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.

> that type of wrongthink

Why is it "wrongthink"?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#122

Post by Chris2048 »

SquirrelOnFire wrote: post #35
iagovar wrote: post #26

I just hope this diversity drama never comes to my country. I already work in a very diverse workplace. Both genders and multiple nationalities are represented, and I really don't see what that brigs to the table. I mean, why is diversity good per se? I don't see any correlation between any demographic variable and being a good coworker.

On an individual level, it doesn't improve being a good coworker. On an institutional level, you get a broader set of ideas when you have a more diverse workforce, giving you a better chance at a black swan idea. And frankly, better odds of preventing disaster (Chevy wouldn't have tried to sell a car called the "Nova" in Mexico if they'd had a spanish speaker on the team. No Va means No Go). There's also evidence tha…

Do you need to go out of your way to employ a Spanish speaker as a permanent employee, on the off chance of a "black swan" idea, rather than o a one of consult with a consultant?

wrt your link: "It is important to note, however, that correlation does not demonstrate causality, which would be challenging to demonstrate". I think a more interesting metric would be diversity relative to the local norm.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#123

Post by Chris2048 »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #111
jriot wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing that you grew up in Massachusetts, went to CMU, and now live San Francisco, I can see why you hold that opinion. Come visit me in Louisiana and I will show its a socio-economic issue, not a race issue.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18305769

How does that inform your reasoning above? How does being part of a group racially targeted by cops mean you can bring something different to a software development team, outside very specific examples of software?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#124

Post by [deleted] »

briandear wrote: post #97
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have a common thread: they all will be recipients of privileged treatment by society. That is indeed a crucially important fact that will share their attitudes and perspectives.

White male coal miners, it could be argued, have had a lot less privilege than a Bobo Stanford grad female accountant. Nancy Pelosi has had a heck of a lot more privilege than some laid off Detroit auto worker. Elizabeth Holmes, who’s father was Christian Holmes IV, a former Vice President of Enron, was a lot more privileged than pretty much anyone reading this now. The idea that gender alone determines privilege is…

[deleted]

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#125

Post by malcolmgreaves »

jriot wrote: post #114
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18305769

You're not going to convenience a white southern who enlisted in the military out of high school on the myth of white privilege.

*the fact of white privilege

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#126

Post by lucozade »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #90
zhangela wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I completely agree that gender and race have an influence on our thought process, and perhaps the title of "I'm not diversity" is a tad overdramatic, because I _do_ bring in a unique perspective. My goal with this post is to convince people to not just limit their views of diversity to race and gender, but also look beyond those 2 to care about the other ways each of us bring in diverse perspectives as well.

Certainly: the objective is to ensure that perspectives are not systematically ignored. However, please don't ignore history. Reality is not neat and tidy: there's never a blank slate from which to build anew. Everything real exists in context and has a past, which constrains its possible futures. Correlation is an important concept because it is evidence of association. And while it's true that associations can be n…

So, to paraphrase, you believe it's entirely reasonable to hire based on stereotypes.

It's not clear from this whether it's just your stereotypes that are acceptable or can anyone join in?

As an aside, I happen to find your gross characterisations objectionable. And yes, I find your writing insightful and informative. But not in a good way.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#128

Post by iagovar »

Chris2048 wrote: post #122
SquirrelOnFire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an individual level, it doesn't improve being a good coworker. On an institutional level, you get a broader set of ideas when you have a more diverse workforce, giving you a better chance at a black swan idea. And frankly, better odds of preventing disaster (Chevy wouldn't have tried to sell a car called the "Nova" in Mexico if they'd had a spanish speaker on the team. No Va means No Go). There's also evidence tha…

Do you need to go out of your way to employ a Spanish speaker as a permanent employee, on the off chance of a "black swan" idea, rather than o a one of consult with a consultant? wrt your link: "It is important to note, however, that correlation does not demonstrate causality, which would be challenging to demonstrate". I think a more interesting metric would be diversity relative to the local norm .

I add that the only thing that I've seen bringing something to the table, aside from any individual variable is economic class.

I really enjoy when we hire people that didn't had the opportunity to attend to university, but to FP (~ community colleges in the US), guide their training and so on. We did this with three guys in my office and I'd say that was one of the best ideas my boss had.

But now HR is not willing to allow this anymore. Somehow hiring poor people and investing in them is not trendy, but hiring women and minorities is.

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