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At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

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Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#181

Post by _m96l »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #171
dunpeal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money, of course. If they are such solid performers, they can get jobs in other FAANGs who pay just as well. Netflix pays well, but does it pay so much better that I should put up with this BS? I doubt. In fact, by keeping up this abusive charade, Netflix is guaranteeing that many of the best candidates will never apply. So my guess would be that their employees aren't the best, but perhaps the best candidates will…

This is absolutely untrue. The pay for Senior & Principal level positions at Netflix are $350k-$500k+ base compensation. The same shape of thing at Apple, Facebook, etc. would be about half that in many cases. Netflix goes out of its way to pay top-of-market and often by a significant margin.

> The pay for Senior & Principal level positions at Netflix are $350k-$500k+ base compensation. The same shape of thing at Apple, Facebook, etc. would be about half that in many cases.

A Principal Engineer at FB would make "half" of $350-500k in compensation?

Pure nonsense.

Moreover, it seems like Netflix pays more cash and less equity, so some folks on this thread love to talk about "base compensation", "salary", etc.

What really matters is total comp, and from what I know, Netflix is about on par with the rest of FAANG.

I don't know much about them directly, but I do know folks who work for FAANGs very close to Los Gatos, and would certainly be inteested in moving if Netflix paid more "by a significant margin".

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#182

Post by dunpeal »

chrisweekly wrote: post #169
jhall1468 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want cash it is. Netflix salaries are generally $350k+. They only hire seniors, but that can mean 4-5 years of experience. Not even Google pays that kind of comp in salary.

"not even Google pays that kind of comp in salary" -- maybe not a deliberate equovocation, but total comp ("salary" plus stock) at google is definitely at or above that range.

Netflix apologists in this thread love to use words like "salary" and "cash", then compare against the base salary of other FAANGs.

Effectively what they're doing is comparing total comp at Netflix with base salary at other FAANGs, which is very misleading.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#183

Post by svat »

type_enthusiast wrote: post #126
Arubis wrote: post #11

Wow. I can literally feel my neck and shoulders bunching up just _reading_ this. If I wanted to live in a fear-based culture every day, I'd join the armed forces--at least that way I could shoot back.

FWIW, "culture of fear" hasn't been my experience at all, and as far as I know it isn't the experience of the people I work with. I can't speak for other teams/orgs (I work in the ML org) but in the years I've been here I could count on one hand the number of folks (at least among those I knew) who were let go. I don't worry or think about my job security; I think about building better software (and from what I can t…

A few months ago, a good engineer who had left Netflix told someone I know that the reason was the work culture: specifically, she mentioned that there were team meetings where everyone was encouraged to say what they didn't like about others, in a public setting.

More recently, this person I know brought it up when interviewing at Netflix (not wanting to work in such a culture), and was reassured by the hiring manager that no, such things do not happen, that all feedback/criticism is 1:1 and never in a public setting.

Now, the article says

> At some team dinners and lunches there are rounds of “real-time 360,” executives say, where everyone goes around and gives feedback and criticism about others at the table.

What has your experience been?

It seems likely to me this is actually true (as independently corroborated by both my friend's friend, and this article), and the manager denied it to a potential future employee, which seems not a very nice thing to do.

And surely there's a selection bias at play: anyone who has a problem with such a culture (e.g. someone who doesn't want to be criticized in public as a matter of course, or someone who doesn't want to be fired one day unexpectedly) would leave, so by definition those who remain are those who are fine with such a culture and don't see it as a problem.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#184

Post by dunpeal »

strangerlands wrote: post #36

Sure, they fire for performance reasons by setting up one of those kangaroos courts where your voice is nowhere to be heard. The build-up to the inevitable firing is something akin to an Ionesco play, one absurdity after the other. The higher-up gets some sidekicks onboard, people who would sell their grandmother for a half-chewed piece of chocolate, and the smearing campaign begins. The apologist has the words ready…

> When news of the firing leaked to the trade press, Mr. Hastings, irritated at a very un-Netflix breach of trust, fired off an email to his executive staff saying whoever leaked it should report themselves to HR.

Are you a member of Netflix CEO's "executive staff"?

If not, how would you know that such an email was never sent?

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#185

Post by diebir »

AareyBaba wrote: post #84
stephengillie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CEO ... believed that regularly letting people go was a way of eliminating bad apples and forcing people to work harder and smarter. Microsoft called it Stack Ranking.

Also known as "Management by Bestseller". Some CEO of a successful company writes a book claiming his management wisdom led to his company success and then a bunch of CEOs read the book and try to replicate the same success because they don't have any original ideas themselves. In this instance the CEO was GE's Jack Welch and his policy was 'rank and yank' Similarly, some CEO will write that you must have a mission s…

Action, Urgency, Excellence, Dick Brown of EDS. Every employee got a book full of power point slides.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#186

Post by Paul-ish »

codingdave wrote: post #50
jedberg wrote: post #7

> Richard Siklos, a Netflix spokesman, said the company only fires employees for performance reasons, not because managers don’t like them That's not true at all. The company fires people all the time because their skills just aren't necessary. I mean I guess technically it's a layoff, but a layoff and getting fired are functionally the same at Netflix as they both come with the same severance. When we moved to AWS,…

> to make sure that the team was always the right people at the right time. That is what contractors are for. Full-time employees are hired because they know/learn the business, get things done, and adapt to changing circumstances. You want them around to help you get through changes. If you are hiring full-time employees to fit a narrow niche need that will change in the future, with the intent of "easy" hiring and…

That seems like a no win. You hire employees and your mean for firing them when you don't need their skillset. You hire contractors and you look like you are stingy and don't want to pay as many benefits.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#187

Post by [deleted] »

strangerlands wrote: post #43
dunpeal wrote: post #37

> Many employees say they see the keeper test as a guise for ordinary workplace politics while some managers say they feel pressure to fire people or risk looking soft. Postmortem emails and meetings explaining why people got fired are viewed by some employees as awkward and theatrical when the audiences can be dozens or even hundreds of people. So every employee gets to be badmouthed in front of as many as hundreds…

> Netflix employees, why do you accept this? Money, of course. Plus, people working in tech and making very good money are not known for "spine-straightness".

[deleted]

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#188

Post by gms »

_m96l wrote: post #181
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely untrue. The pay for Senior & Principal level positions at Netflix are $350k-$500k+ base compensation. The same shape of thing at Apple, Facebook, etc. would be about half that in many cases. Netflix goes out of its way to pay top-of-market and often by a significant margin.

> The pay for Senior & Principal level positions at Netflix are $350k-$500k+ base compensation. The same shape of thing at Apple, Facebook, etc. would be about half that in many cases. A Principal Engineer at FB would make "half" of $350-500k in compensation? Pure nonsense. Moreover, it seems like Netflix pays more cash and less equity, so some folks on this thread love to talk about "base compensation", "salary", et…

Netflix is not on par. They do pay more than the rest can match.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#189

Post by Bombthecat »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #111

Netflix has tried to recruit me a couple of times, I interviewed on site both times (after having the recruiter send me the slide deck that they use to explain their culture so it wouldn't be a surprise). For one of the sessions I had the extraordinary opportunity to talk to the manager for the role, their manager, and two people who had previously been in the role (Netflix wasn't aware that I knew those people). Wha…

But isn't that the role of a manager? Building a team for success?

Sure there are docent ways... And they picked the hmm easy way. Hire and then fire off they don't like what they see.

Re: At Netflix, Radical Transparency and Blunt Firings Unsettle the Ranks

#190

Post by jiveturkey »

jhall1468 wrote: post #153
dunpeal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (Netflix employees, why do you accept this?) > Let me take a stab at this: money is good. Better than everywhere else, including other FAANGs, where you don't have to tolerate such policies?

If you want cash it is. Netflix salaries are generally $350k+. They only hire seniors, but that can mean 4-5 years of experience. Not even Google pays that kind of comp in salary.

they pay that in total comp. netflix has no bonuses and such. the salary is your total comp.
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