As a female engineer, I am not diversity • Hacker News Board

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#101

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #93

justaman wrote: post #47

I'm going to say it. The most excluded group in SV are conservative republicans. Its a death sentence to your career to come out as one. If you truly value diversity, their point of view is the most absent from tech.

We should consider the life experience of the homosexual boy or girl, who exists underfoot as a pawn for American Christian moral whim. American Christians constitute such a majority that if they willed something, then a mountain would move, such as tax and finance reform which considers the sacred issue of poverty. Unfortunately American Christians have been focused on sexuality for the last decade, but that's reall…

Please keep religious flamewar off this site.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#102

Post by babygoat » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

Konnstann wrote: post #91

Frondo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, conservatives in the US have thrown in with a party that typically demonizes people of color, is actively working to disenfranchise them, and has a growing white nationalist element to it. Are there some conservatives who really just care about there being too much government regulation, or whatever? Sure. Looking at the party they rally around and the way it wants to treat people, there sure are some general t…

There's a difference between being a Republican, and being a Conservative. To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party. There still exist factions that resulted in the passage of a lot of Democratic policies while the Reps. controlled Congress during the last presidency. While I don't support the Republican party, I still hold conservative ideals, primarily regard…

> To that end, the Republican party itself is not the monolith that you see in the Democratic party.

What on earth are you talking about?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#103

Post by threatofrain » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #101

threatofrain wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should consider the life experience of the homosexual boy or girl, who exists underfoot as a pawn for American Christian moral whim. American Christians constitute such a majority that if they willed something, then a mountain would move, such as tax and finance reform which considers the sacred issue of poverty. Unfortunately American Christians have been focused on sexuality for the last decade, but that's reall…

Please keep religious flamewar off this site. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I was discussing religion in the scope of American political conservatism, or does one imagine a robust discourse of power that somehow ignores Christianity, the dominant religion of America?

Am I not contributing something "new to say"? Who here is talking about the intersection of Bay Area churches, tech, professionalism and employment, and financial status?

How much more curating or moderating will it take?

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#104

Post by babygoat » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:17 PM UTC

sydd wrote: post #72

babygoat wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the most incompatible point of view. They do not want to be around diversity.

Every one of them? Isnt this the textbook definition of generalization that diversity is supposed to counter?

Yes, and no.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#105

Post by nil-value » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

Will_Parker wrote: post #99

nil-value wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain how reprimanding people referring to "white brogrammer culture" as sexist, racist, and insulting a far-left idea? I would think many would slap some kind of alt-right label on that type of wrongthink.

Sorry, I can't parse your question! I believe that the term "white brogrammer culture", as a pejorative, is sexist and racist and insulting. (See the article I mentioned for a use of this term.) And I've observed that pointing this out leads to trouble. Can you give an example of a critique of intersectionality that is acceptable in a tech company? I suspect you can't.

You suspected correctly

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#106

Post by zhangela » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

wittgenstein wrote: post #10

leephillips wrote: post #5

This article is part of the problem. By pointing out that she does not contribute to "diversity" because of her economic and cultural background, the author reinforces the idea that those are the interesting ingredients of this elusive "diversity." She says nothing about her ideas, interests, or opinions. Does she perhaps add to diversity by having original thoughts? Or are her political opinions and taste in music p…

Exactly. The greatest problem with this article is its underlying assumption that "diversity" is good by itself and that companies should pursue it. The author makes the point that she is not "diverse enough", while ignoring the fundamental issue that measuring "diversity" and showing that it is a goal worth pursuing by itself is non-trivial and problematic. The fact that she is counted as "diversity" while claiming…

Here are a few articles on why diversity is good for business:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/18/diverse-teams-are-still-re...

https://www.inc.com/ian-altman/5-reasons-why-workplace-diver...

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#107

Post by malcolmgreaves » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

jriot wrote: post #83

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have a common thread: they all will be recipients of privileged treatment by society. That is indeed a crucially important fact that will share their attitudes and perspectives.

White males who enlisted in the military were not recipients of privileged treatment by society.

Yes they are. You don't understand what white privilege is.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#108

Post by jriot » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 11:57 PM UTC

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #107

jriot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White males who enlisted in the military were not recipients of privileged treatment by society.

Yes they are. You don't understand what white privilege is.

Seeing that you grew up in Massachusetts, went to CMU, and now live San Francisco, I can see why you hold that opinion.

Come visit me in Louisiana and I will show its a socio-economic issue, not a race issue.

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#109

Post by malcolmgreaves » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #97

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will have a common thread: they all will be recipients of privileged treatment by society. That is indeed a crucially important fact that will share their attitudes and perspectives.

White male coal miners, it could be argued, have had a lot less privilege than a Bobo Stanford grad female accountant. Nancy Pelosi has had a heck of a lot more privilege than some laid off Detroit auto worker. Elizabeth Holmes, who’s father was Christian Holmes IV, a former Vice President of Enron, was a lot more privileged than pretty much anyone reading this now. The idea that gender alone determines privilege is…

Please do some.more reading on what white privilege is. You are confusing it for physical or financial comfort: this is not an correct interpretation.

White privilege is seeing that politicians are mainly white men, that the people often cast as the heroes of movies and TV shows and books are white men, that nearly everything in society characterizes the "good guy" or the ideal person as being a white man. (I also hope that you learned about the history of how people of color, especially black men, where presented in society.)

It's also why white people are not afraid of being murdered by cops as they reach for their car registration and insurance. Or as they answer the door to a belligerent, entitled, drunk, off-duty cop who attempts to B&E into their home. [1] (This sort of thing never, ever happens to white people.)

The privilege isn't something as superficial as more money: it's significantly deeper. It's summarized as the notion that being a white man means every opportunity is available to you and there are no closed doors.

Perhaps a better way to think about it is that white privilege is the absence of any systematic biases or abuses based upon your gender or skin complexion.

[1] https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/24/dallas-police-...

Re: As a female engineer, I am not diversity

#110

Post by wittgenstein » Fri, Oct 26, 2018, 12:16 AM UTC

zhangela wrote: post #106

wittgenstein wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The greatest problem with this article is its underlying assumption that "diversity" is good by itself and that companies should pursue it. The author makes the point that she is not "diverse enough", while ignoring the fundamental issue that measuring "diversity" and showing that it is a goal worth pursuing by itself is non-trivial and problematic. The fact that she is counted as "diversity" while claiming…

Here are a few articles on why diversity is good for business: https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/18/diverse-teams-are-still-re... https://www.inc.com/ian-altman/5-reasons-why-workplace-diver...

I know that statistics can be found that in some way correlate "diversity" with some financial metric or other being better. But that still is not definitive nor does it address the fundamental issue which is "what really is diversity, on what basis and features should it be measured, and WHY should we optimize for diversity as opposed to OTHER traits that potentially will correlate even more highly with other desirable metrics?"