Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13 • Hacker News Board

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#161

Post by ConcreteRooster » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

Anyone use Linux on the desktop with a document scanner? A big component of my at-home PC use is scanning documents (I'm a self-admitted digital hoarder). I have a Fujitsu ScanSnap S1500, which is "supported" by Linux/SANE. I have tried to use this scanner under Linux, and while it does work, the problem is that the Windows-only Fujitsu software (ScanSnap Manager) does a lot of useful things to the scan data: straightens the document if it was fed in at an angle; converts to PDF; adjusts contrast, white levels, etc so the digital result magically looks like the physical document; and more I'm probably forgetting.

I have Ubuntu on a little NUC PC attached to my TV. The other day, I heard the fan running loudly on this system. Ubuntu's update system, across several processes, was collectively pegging both CPUs at 100%, causing the fan to ramp up. Why does an update system (which was waiting on my input) require so much CPU?

The huge number of distributions is both a blessing and a curse. Ubuntu has clearly put a lot of effort into the ease-of-use aspect. But what I found (years ago, to be fair) was that if you had any non-trivial problem, the forums weren't terribly helpful. On the other hand, a distro like Arch has fantastic documentation, and really knowledgeable forum users, but you need that because you're doing everything by hand. I haven't found the sweet spot that gives an Ubuntu-like experience out of the box, but has a very technical Arch-like community.

The statements the author made early in the article really resonate with me. I consider myself a Linux "pro", as I've been using it as an enthusiast for 20 years, and have been a professional admin for about a decade (server-side, not desktop). So I have fixed or feel I can fix just about any Linux issue. But at this point in my life, after work, I don't have the time or desire to fiddle with things, I want them to "just work".

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#162

Post by scns » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

wtetzner wrote: post #94

dazzawazza wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has just released[1] a first access game across Windows, macOS and Linux: 10 years ago developing on linux as a game developer was way worse than windows and MacOS, now there is no real difference at all. I speak as a long time UNIX user, Linux was terrible for C++ devleopment, debugging and asset creation/viewing (compared to the others) making gamedev tougher than it needed to be. 10 years ago linux'…

> It's still a PITA to deploy a compiled app on Linux with unclear glibc versions and amazingly it's worse than MS DLL hell of MSVC redistributable shambles. One option is to statically link against musl libc [1]. The kernel ABI is about the only stable thing you can rely on (which is something you _can't_ rely on for macOS or Windows). [1] https://www.musl-libc.org/

Is it not possible to link glibc staticalliy? IIRC musl has readability and code size in mind while glibc optimizes for performance at the cost of readability and codesize.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#163

Post by monocasa » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:54 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #157

monocasa wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. There's talks of Blizzard for instance dropping support for Mac. Dice has a blog post that's messaging concern. It looks like a bunch of engines are going to limp on MoltenVK which kind or imposes a weird impedance mismatch and gives weird perf issues soemtimes that you probs wouldn't see with a native Metal backend. And that's before getting into the release of Metal 2. There's a non zero amount of work to…

> All the middleware that matters.... Unreal, Unity, CryEngine, ... I wasn't talking about in-house solutions, rather engines that many AAA studios buy in order to actually focus on the game itself. As for the rest of your remark, it comes up in places like HN, but not at all when attending local game developer meetups, developer articles on Making Games, Gamasutra, Connection, IGDA, or many other professional public…

I mean, my day job is supporting an application across Win/Mac/Linux. Even ignoring the graphics, Apple is easily the hardest to support. I don't really care if you haven't read a magazine article on it.

And to pretend like FrostBite doesn't matter is ridiculous.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#164

Post by paulie_a » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

VadimPR wrote: post #40

gnufied wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Runs 5000 games run on Linux vs runs well on Linux. Unfortunately - Linux still has some way to go. Generally, you get lower FPS on Linux(could matter for competitive gaming). There are graphical glitches and artifacts even on well supported games(I am looking at you Dota2). It is far more likely for game to be entirely broken via an update on Linux than Windows and it can take quite awhile to get the fix.

Competitive gamers lower graphics, especially on Dota2, and the game runs great on Linux - especially on good drivers like nVidia.

And to be fair, competitive gamers are a miniscule part of the the market to the point of being irrelevant.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#165

Post by julienfr112 » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:03 PM UTC

I'm using Ubuntu since almost 10 years. I rediscovered windows 10 and i have to admit it's pretty good : more responsive than Ubuntu, more pretty. On the down side, you have to download drivers even for very common devices like for the wifi card of Intel nucs. I miss also the simplicity of installing software and library (sudo apt get...) Vs downloading an installer, the installer download something, clicking ok ok ok ok ok ...

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#166

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:17 PM UTC

wtetzner wrote: post #94

dazzawazza wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has just released[1] a first access game across Windows, macOS and Linux: 10 years ago developing on linux as a game developer was way worse than windows and MacOS, now there is no real difference at all. I speak as a long time UNIX user, Linux was terrible for C++ devleopment, debugging and asset creation/viewing (compared to the others) making gamedev tougher than it needed to be. 10 years ago linux'…

> It's still a PITA to deploy a compiled app on Linux with unclear glibc versions and amazingly it's worse than MS DLL hell of MSVC redistributable shambles. One option is to statically link against musl libc [1]. The kernel ABI is about the only stable thing you can rely on (which is something you _can't_ rely on for macOS or Windows). [1] https://www.musl-libc.org/

> The kernel ABI is about the only stable thing you can rely on (which is something you _can't_ rely on for macOS or Windows).

In Windows's case, technically accurate but not really relevant, since the interface for working with the base DLLs like kernel32, user32, etc. hasn't changed.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#167

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

PascLeRasc wrote: post #96

jjoonathan wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my Dell Precision 6800: * "Supported" ubuntu was so old that neither Chrome nor Firefox would update * Latest ubuntu constantly toggled the backlight at 30fps (yes, really). * They didn't provide a driver package, instead they provided a utility to bake drivers into install media. Naturally, it didn't work, the documentation described a significantly different version. * All these problems were well-represented in…

Where did you get info on what the "supported" Ubuntu version is? I've installed 18.04 on C2D machines and it looks like your machine has a Haswell CPU. The latest version of any Linux distro you want will work. Also, did you ever try these utilities to set the backlight PWM? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/backlight#Backlight_PWM...

I think he's referring to the version that Dell ships with the laptop. But that laptop has been out of support from Dell for so long I don't know why this is a problem, it's not like you were going to be able to call them up and get support on it anyway.

In my experience Ubuntu on Dell laptops tends to just work. Even things you might not expect like the volume keys on the keyboard.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#168

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #33

apexalpha wrote: post #12

>once I've spent a few hours configuring everything This is what stops noobs from using it.

Because noobs can install Windows in 5 minutes? First you need the drivers, how will you get them if you don't have a CD ROM and ethernet is not working? Sometimes drivers suck, sometimes Realtek sound drivers mess up the Realtk network cards, will your noobs know what happened? Then you have to install apps like VLC, good luck ending up on the official site and not some random download site Other issue I personally…

The difference is that you bought the laptop with Windows already installed, so the manufacturer went through all of those headaches for you.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#169

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

izolate wrote: post #54

apexalpha wrote: post #12

>once I've spent a few hours configuring everything This is what stops noobs from using it.

Whoever first brings to market a laptop with Linux that "just works" 100% from the moment you press the on button, is poised to make a lot of money. That day will probably never arrive, but it's fun to think about.

I've installed Ubuntu on a variety of semi-mondern Dell and HP laptops and generally there is little to no post-install tweaking required save for some preferences I have that Canonical does not, like always showing the damn menu items. To be fair, there are settings on Windows I always change as well, like always showing the file extensions.

As far as hardware problems are concerned the only thing I run into regularly is touchpad palm rejection not working. This is a pain in the ass but it doesn't affect every machine.

Re: Ditching Windows: 2 Weeks with Ubuntu Linux on the Dell XPS 13

#170

Post by jandrese » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

Insanity wrote: post #13

majewsky wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nice to see that this curse still occasionally persists /s FTFY Seriously, though, that's a huge outlier. I haven't touched a machine in the last 10 years where Ethernet and Wifi were not supported out-of-the-box. (Including my new Thinkpad, which I was weary about since it came with an Atheros Wifi module, but it too worked out-of-the-box without any tinkering). These days, the biggest issues are with Nvidia GPUs…

The drivers for gpus are a bit annoying but only if you want to game on Ubuntu. Nouveau drivers are horrible for performance and the nvidia ones are not always great, if you can find a compatible one. That being said - I can't compare with AMD as my last system of Linux with an AMD gpu for gaming was back when it was an ATI gpu. :p

nVidia's drivers cover a pretty wide swath of cards. I've had decent luck in Ubuntu just going to the proprietary drivers section and clicking on the binary blob. The only downside is that it locks you into one version of the driver until you do a full OS upgrade, and that driver gets pretty out of date by the time the next LTS is ready.