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Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

economist.com

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Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#211

Post by sdiq »

davewasthere wrote: post #43

It is a great language to learn. I speak a bit of Khaleej Arabic, and maybe twenty years ago, could read the characters (I'd struggle a bit now) so could read anything that was transliterated. But it's logical and very easy. Well worth learning even just the fundamentals. There are a few sounds that us English speakers don't necessarily use natively, but on the whole, it's a lot easier to learn (I find) than say a to…

Kaif halach? As a Muslim who gets to hear Arabic several times a week in the mosque and who lived in the Khaleej, too, picking Arabic has been a not so easy thing for me. I think any other language not formally read would still be difficult for me. However, I can read Arabic though still can't speak.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#212

Post by unfocused »

theprotocol wrote: post #64

I am a native Arabic speaker. It is an awful language. As the article points out, the dialects are just too numerous for it to gain any kind of critical mass of adoption. But beyond that, I'd say the biggest problem with it is that there are just so many exceptions that knowing the rules of grammar is nowhere near enough to speak it correctly. edit: I also wanted to mention that written Arabic differs from spoken Ara…

Hmmm...not sure I agree with you. I also used to speak 4 languages, and native Arabic (Lebanese) being one of them. Terrible at Spanish now, Advanced French, Average Lebanese, but English is tops.

I'll just put this out there, I find Arabic very descriptive. Think about the food! Lahm w Aajeen (Meat and Dough) is a meat pie that you have for breakfast. So many food items have names that are just the ingredients!

Also, while yes, the written form differs from how you speak, I speak Lebanese to any other person whose dialect is is different, and they will understand me. Whether Syrian, Iraqi, etc.

And for the record, I've been to Yorkshire, England and I had so much trouble understanding what the heck they said. I'm confident this problem occurs in many other languages, and not just Arabic.

Also, depending on where you come from in the country, you will have a different accent e.g. North Lebanon vs. South Lebanon.

In Canada, if you're from Newfoundland, you will definitely have an accent and people from anywhere in the Country would notice it.

No language is perfect, you just have to roll with the dice.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#213

Post by t-3 »

mbel wrote: post #200
jki275 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that English words don't really change meanings based on pronunciation. Words do have many pronunciations, but the meaning remains the same.

Oh really, what about 'lead' and 'lead'?

They will never be confused because context supplies the clues.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#214

Post by t-3 »

DigitalHobo wrote: post #201
smel wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm native arabic speaker too, and can tell you that your statement is far from the truth. Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french (I love/speak french :D). There are only 3 tenses: Also it's derivational language which mean once you learn about a verb you actually learn about the whole lexical family of the verb. In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabi…

> Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french Would you say this is true of spoken english as well? By that I mean, a large amount of the difficulty involving english involves our train-wreck of spelling rules, spoken english on the other hand tends to be reasonably easy to become functional in (apart from idioms). Would you say that Arabic is simpler than purely spoken english as…

English spelling is a feature, not a bug. You can tell the origin of nearly any word by it's spelling, and knowing that gives you clues to pronunciation and grammar. If you're ignorant of latin and more modern European languages it might be difficult though.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#215

Post by anticensor »

bunkerbewohner wrote: post #146
Gormisdomai wrote: post #96

Arabic's grammar system should also be fascinating for any computer scientist. The majority of MSA vocabulary is generated by predictably transforming "root strings" of 2, 3 or 4 letters. Beyond just English style conjugation, this means that every verb can predictably be transformed into a set of nouns, every noun can be traced back to to its original root verb (the same for adjectives and adverbs). For example Root…

It's certainly interesting in theory. But in practice, how do you distinguish between a bookshop, library, office and desk when all of those things can be referred to by "maktab"? And does inferring / generating words this way actually work? For example, can I say "makra" (مقرأ) for "Library", a place where you read? Based on the verb "yakra" (read).

Close enough, makra means auditorium.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#216

Post by hedvig »

abol3z wrote: post #138
smel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're right ! and a little bit biased because pronunciation is important for all languages out there I see the same issue with french foreign speakers too. In Arabic pronunciation is straight forward, in english pronunciation depends on each word (a,u,o) can have a different sounds (depends in which word used) and the emphasis also is a dark magic :D there are no such exceptions in Arabic Arabic can be difficult but…

I agree with you, I even think that Arabic speakers are the best at understanding foreigners speech. As he pointed, you might tell your girlfriend this is a gift from your dog (كلب) instead of heart (قلب), but I'm sure that if she is a native speaker, she'll understand correctly. I've seen the same mistakes happen in other languages, but the native speaker usually miss the meaning. I think this relates to the fact th…

And language aside, a partner that is willing to meet you halfway in understanding is a great partner. :)

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#217

Post by kissickas »

int_19h wrote: post #182
smel wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm native arabic speaker too, and can tell you that your statement is far from the truth. Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french (I love/speak french :D). There are only 3 tenses: Also it's derivational language which mean once you learn about a verb you actually learn about the whole lexical family of the verb. In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabi…

> In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabic (kitaab, kaatib, maktaba) which is the same root (k,t,b) and with simple rules you can discover all those words or even invent them if not used previously I don't see why the word for "author" has to be derived from the same root as "book", logically speaking. There are a great deal more things than books that have authors. The reason why this partic…

> There are a great deal more things than books that have authors

And those things all have their own words for their authors, as well.

poetry - sha3r

poet - shaa3r

composition (the noun of the verb) - ta2leef

composition (the thing written) - mu2allaf

composer - mu2allef

letter, correspondance - resala

messenger - rasool

correspondent (like a news reporter) - murasel

You can also use kaateb for the author of a letter or perhaps a poem, but not really a symphony. Just like you wouldn't use author. Pardon the use of the numbers in words - it's how people represent letters that aren't in English in Arabic.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#218

Post by planteen »

isostatic wrote: post #167
CydeWeys wrote: post #132

As a typical American who mostly just speaks English, the #1 most useful language I wish I also spoke is Spanish. It's pervasive, both in the US and elsewhere. I'm currently in Barcelona for a conference and this is the third time in 1.5 years I've been in a Spanish-speaking country for a conference. The only other language that can have a similarly credible case for learning it would be Mandarin, but unlike Spanish,…

As a typical Brit who mostly just speaks English, and have over 50 countries on 6 continents under my belt, I've never been to a country that had Spanish as an official language. In a given year the languages that would help me are Russian, Mandarin, and Arabic. French in some parts of Africa (and France/Belgium of course). In places like India and Kenya, I follow conversations with the locals as they generally speak…

Just because Spanish isn't an official language in the US doesn't make it less useful. The US is the second largest Spanish speaking nation in the world, behind Mexico. There are a number of careers in the US where speaking Spanish is very useful, especially when you interact a lot with people (e.g., medicine & sales). Every major US market is served by at least two Spanish speaking TV stations over the air. And if you speak Spanish fluently, there is a high degree of mutual intelligibility that lets you communicate with Portuguese speakers (for Brazil). It's an extremely useful language for North, Central, and South America. It also gives the average American much more opportunities to make use of their Spanish skills in every day life when compared to French or German.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#219

Post by Riverheart »

Tor3 wrote: post #177
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you don't mean "gozaimasu" in the taxi driver example? I learned what little Japanese I do know from Duolingo and it was somewhat useful on a recent trip to Japan. Our tour guides were mostly impressed and certainly didn't point out any glaring issues with it (although that could be Japanese politeness).

I'm absolutely sure - I've lived in Japan, and my wife is Japanese. 'gozaimasu' is a word you add to a sentence to make it (even) more polite. E.g. 'Arigatou' - thanks. 'Arigatou gozaimasu' 'Thank you very much' (or whatever way you want to think about it). Same with phrases for 'good morning' etc. As for the taxi driver phrase, it goes like this: Normally when you ask for something in Japanese you would use for exam…

Any free alternatives to DuoLingo's Japanese offering or general advice?

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#220

Post by kkarakk »

smel wrote: post #116
theprotocol wrote: post #64

I am a native Arabic speaker. It is an awful language. As the article points out, the dialects are just too numerous for it to gain any kind of critical mass of adoption. But beyond that, I'd say the biggest problem with it is that there are just so many exceptions that knowing the rules of grammar is nowhere near enough to speak it correctly. edit: I also wanted to mention that written Arabic differs from spoken Ara…

I'm native arabic speaker too, and can tell you that your statement is far from the truth. Arabic is far more simple language with fewer exceptions than english or french (I love/speak french :D). There are only 3 tenses: Also it's derivational language which mean once you learn about a verb you actually learn about the whole lexical family of the verb. In english for example you have : Book, Author, Library In Arabi…

yeah sure at an academic level arabic is tres beautiful just like french but realistically none of that translates to everyday spoken arabic to the point where you have to learn a different dialect based on who you want to sound like - a denizen of a country, a foreigner or a bedouin. arabic is one of those languages where there are so many local modifications going on it's insane amounts of effort to be known as "fluent" and "understandable". people in arabia even use emojis differently for crissakes
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