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America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

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Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#381

Post by beauzero »

rjsw wrote: post #324
nostrademons wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting at the root of the problem: teaching in the U.S. is a low-paid, low-status position. Teaching in other countries is a decently-paid, high-status position. This directly translates into job desirability and ability to attract qualified candidates. I had some good teachers growing up, as well as a number of bad ones. The good ones all fell into one of these categories: 1) they were young and idealistic 2…

A fourth category of good teachers from my childhood was Biology teachers. All of mine had done research but then found that there were not very many jobs for them other than in teaching.

The best high school science teacher I had was an entomologist. Teaching was the best paying job he could find.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#382

Post by notyourday »

blihp wrote: post #364
notyourday wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will discriminate against rural and middle America by depriving them of the skilled labor that they need to survive. Rural and middle America needs to get off its collective ass. I have seriously considered moving to one of those places -- alas, while I can get a house cheap and have what I need to survive inexpensively, I cannot get high speed internet even if I pay $1,000.00 per month.

That's not the fault of most of those communities. Many of them have tried to set up their own municipal wifi/ISPs and many (most?) have been stopped cold by legislation and back room deals at the local and state levels by the telco and cable companies. Just read some of the stories about what Google, one of the richest companies on Earth, ran into when attempting to bring high-speed Internet to various cities.

I don't care. I have money. I want a service. They can't provide it. This means they do not get to complain that my six figure buying power chooses a city.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#383

Post by lenkite »

sarchertech wrote: post #329
lenkite wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK this is not a "complete straw man". Democratic National Committee deputy chair Keith Ellison (Minnesota) is strongly in favor of open borders, goes around wearing T-shirts saying the same. He has even been quoted saying that "America’s national borders create an injustice by keeping Mexican workers from traveling to the United States to look for higher-paying jobs". Maybe he has a point, however he does not sha…

>"America’s national borders create an injustice by keeping Mexican workers from traveling to the United States to look for higher-paying jobs" That's an inaccurate summary of what he said that's been going around right wing news sites. Here's what he actually said: > “And so corporations, certain people who get certain rights, can go back and forth across the border seeking out the lowest wages, but people, regular…

I haven't observed this from right wing media, but from his own twitter channel.

I don't understand this. Corporations are not allowed to move back and forth between borders at the drop of a hat- you have to satisfy legal obligations to be recognized as a corporation and hire people in any nation. Legal immigrants have also have to wait in a queue and satisfy formalities. The analogy just breaks down for illegal immigrants who are neither interested in following laws or awaiting their turn. So national borders are not creating any injustice.

Please note that he wore that T-shirt at a "May-day" parade in a video published on his own twitter channel. It is rather "nice" of you to re-frame his stance that it was in support of a "Rap Group", but you and I both know that certainly wasn't the case.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#384

Post by pc86 »

VintageLight wrote: post #162
pc86 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's to prevent you hiring an H1B for a one-month, $50,000 contract, then hiring them for a separate 11-month, $50,000 contract after. The company will argue the initial hire is a $600k/yr rate.

You could argue that they would get a one-month visa and top priority for that first month. The employer would have to go through the visa process again for the second contract.

They're already here, renewal is a completely separate process. The biggest hurdle is getting them off the plane, if they're employed, sponsored, and here it's much easier to keep them here.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#385

Post by [deleted] »

mdpopescu wrote: post #170
El_Flanagan wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know about Turkey, but at Spain 30K/year wont be your bonus. Will be you salary. And consider it good salary.

I have no idea why this comment was killed but yes, 30K/year is a pretty good salary in a lot of Europe.

[deleted]

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#386

Post by saalweachter »

nradov wrote: post #67
Kephael wrote: post #7

The supply of technical workers is artificially limited by Leetcode style interviews. There doesn't seem to be an actual supply side limitation, especially not at the entry level.

Decades ago tech companies like IBM would hire entry-level software developers with zero coding experience based on the results of aptitude tests. Then they put the new employees through internal boot camps. There's no reason a similar approach couldn't work today. Employers just generally got lazy about workforce development while the economy was slower and they had an unlimited supply of applicants.

It's not just software engineers. This also happens with skilled labor, like machining.

You used to be able to get hired and taught on the job, now the employers expect you to pay your own way through a technical school for several years before applying for a minimum-wage job. So you've got (a) lower wages (b) you need to pay to educate yourself (c) you need to pay to support yourself during those years of training and (d) you're guessing which job skills are going to be in demand after N years, so after spending the time training and taking on debt there might not even be a job waiting for you.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#387

Post by sarchertech »

lenkite wrote: post #383
sarchertech wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"America’s national borders create an injustice by keeping Mexican workers from traveling to the United States to look for higher-paying jobs" That's an inaccurate summary of what he said that's been going around right wing news sites. Here's what he actually said: > “And so corporations, certain people who get certain rights, can go back and forth across the border seeking out the lowest wages, but people, regular…

I haven't observed this from right wing media, but from his own twitter channel. I don't understand this. Corporations are not allowed to move back and forth between borders at the drop of a hat- you have to satisfy legal obligations to be recognized as a corporation and hire people in any nation. Legal immigrants have also have to wait in a queue and satisfy formalities. The analogy just breaks down for illegal immi…

You got text you quoted from right wing media. He never said the words you wrote, and if you google them, you'll find they only appear in right wing media.

I'm not arguing for or against open borders. But I'm telling you Keith Ellison isn't arguing for what you think he is.

>Legal immigrants have also have to wait in a queue and satisfy formalities.

For 99% of the population there is no queue to wait in.

>who are neither interested in following laws or awaiting their turn

Again this is a right wing talking point. For the average person in Mexico, there is no turn. There isn't even a line to get in.

>So national borders are not creating any injustice.

You're arguing with a straw man. He never said that. He said that it's too easy for corporations to move between borders because of NAFTA (not frictionless, but too easy), and too hard for employees. That imbalance is what he's saying creates the injustice, not border security.

>but you and I both know that certainly wasn't the case.

I do know that it wasnt to support a rap group (also no need for scare quotes here--rap group is an accurate description.).

I never said it was only or even partially to support the group itself. It was to show solidarity with a group of desperate poor people with an aspirational quote.

You can believe and even advocate for a future world without borders as an aspirational goal, without believing that it's possible today or likely possible ever.

Do you think Donald Trump's quote that we need to leave borders behind meant that he wants to just stop gaurding the border?

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#388

Post by diogenescynic »

i_phish_cats wrote: post #247
CodeMage wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both of these would ensure that we can get smart and talented individuals from outside the US and would drastically improve the ability for the US to compete while continuing to provide broad-based wage increases. As an immigrant, I'm all for better and easier immigration system. As a parent of an 11 year old, I can tell you that what your country really needs is not more smart and talented immigrants, but better e…

Nice anecdote. Here's another theory: American kids are being priced out of universities with good CS programs because those universities have burdensome pension programs that can only be paid by importing international students with rich parents.

It’s not the pension programs, it’s the administration, executives, and luxury accommodations. College should be cheap considering the number of students to professor ratio. Keep admin costs low and pass that on to students. No where seems to do that anymore though.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#389

Post by lenkite »

sarchertech wrote: post #387
lenkite wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't observed this from right wing media, but from his own twitter channel. I don't understand this. Corporations are not allowed to move back and forth between borders at the drop of a hat- you have to satisfy legal obligations to be recognized as a corporation and hire people in any nation. Legal immigrants have also have to wait in a queue and satisfy formalities. The analogy just breaks down for illegal immi…

You got text you quoted from right wing media. He never said the words you wrote, and if you google them, you'll find they only appear in right wing media. I'm not arguing for or against open borders. But I'm telling you Keith Ellison isn't arguing for what you think he is. >Legal immigrants have also have to wait in a queue and satisfy formalities. For 99% of the population there is no queue to wait in. >who are nei…

My last comment as I really don't like to talk about politics on HN.

Speaking from an immigrant family - there are lot of procedures to formally migrate into the US. You need an immigrant visa for starters and this is not easy to get - you can be rejected for several reasons and need to reapply. Then you need to work towards getting a green card for at-least 5 years. There is a waiting list. You may not get your card for more than a decade - sometimes even 20 years!. So I do not understand what you mean by "99% of the population, there is NO queue to wait in". That doesn't make any sense to me at all. The only way there would be no queue if you hop the border and claim false refugee status. For folks who have had a long, long road to legal immigration into the states, this is very bitter pill.

About Donald Trump - it obvious that he is a closed border/anti-immigrant politician. Thats the plank he ran on for office. His one misleading quote is offset by thousands/ten-thousands of his other statements in favour of reduced immigration.

About a future world without borders - only possible when world-wide legal frameworks are in place, common law enforcement, similar systems of government and world-wide elections.

Re: America’s Need for Skilled Immigrants Isn’t Going Away

#390

Post by dorchadas »

Apocryphon wrote: post #72
enraged_camel wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't train their workforce because said workforce then leaves and joins another company, which then benefits from that training. ...that's how it was explained to me by an executive at my former job (a big part of the reason why it's my former job).

California is an at-will state and all that, but surely executives and business consultants can structure some sort of incentive package to cause workers to stay for at least some minimum duration?

If a company was willing to train me and provide me decent salary and benefits, I'd totally stay. If there was room to move up in the company, and they kept offering good salary and benefits, I'd probably never seriously consider leaving unless I hated the job or just got an amazing offer (barring events like needing to take care of parents, etc, of course). I feel like a lot of people would prefer the stability, even, especially if the company is investing in them.
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