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Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

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Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#41

Post by sharpneli »

ahje wrote: post #34
sharpneli wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree that the adblock list is a major breach of trust and should not have been done. I just wanted to give especially Americans some view on how different things may be. According to my search as an example in Denmark they're only allowed if "Short and for reasonable cause" and so forth and sweden was not listed at all, but norway was. This is likely a mix of case law and actual written law. https://www.asi.is…

Yeah, there's a lot of single cases with little actual law on the subject. Finland is probably one of the few places where you can't fire an employee for participating in a poltical strike. The ability to fire someone for going on strike doesn't make the strike illegal though.

Amusingly not even illegal strike allows one to fire someone. In Finland even illegal strike gives you protection from retribution and the damages are capped at around 24000€ total (not per employee, but total sum for the strike and this is paid by union).

So even if Finland would make political strikes illegal it would not change much.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#42

Post by boomboomsubban »

simias wrote: post #32
TekMol wrote: post #3

I found that for me a whitelist makes more sense then a blacklist. I use umatrix with these two default rules: * * * block * 1st-party * allow So by default a site can load whatever it wants from its own domain and nothing from 3rd party domains. Then I add rules as needed. The Umatrix interface makes this super easy.

Can you teach me this skill? I usually don't mind steep learning curves and taking a while to familiarize myself with a piece of technology if I believe that I'll end up benefiting from it (I type in dvorak, use a tiling window manager, I'm a shell power user etc...) but try as I might I just can't wrap my head around umatrix. I understand what it does, I just don't understand how to use it effectively. Like I just t…

Generally, if the website breaks it's "scripts" from somewhere, or rarely xhr. When it's frames, it looks like a chunk of the site is missing. If media won't load it is media. And basically never allow anything from a dark red square.

I'd check umatrix's site and there are a number of presets to make major sites work you can use. After that, if a site doesn't work fiddle with allowing things from places. Save when you're content. It's pretty easy to get the hang of.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#43

Post by sharpneli »

jarcane wrote: post #25
sharpneli wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The card carrying union members in our company are protesting the strike. They want the union to focus on their contracts and not go against government some of the members potentially voted for. So it’s a bit more complex issue. I just wanted to tell HN readers that there even is such a thing as a political strike.

If you do not stand with all workers, you will be divided, and fall. That's what solidarity means. I have a cushy tech job, with a big company, so the recent attempted changes probably won't affect me at all. But if they can go after those it will and get away with it, then next time they will come for me, and there will be no united front left to defend me. The alternative is we end up like America, and as much as s…

The difference is in methods. Not on the concepts.

As an example I aim for system where employment is at will but that is balanced by strong social security and unemployment benefits. It kinda gives best of both worlds. When you are not screwed when you're fired you don't need insanely strong protections.

I refuse to accept that as a worker I have to support decisions that I personally think as stupid just due to "solidarity". I vote based on my own conscience just like everyone else ought to vote according to theirs.

If Finland was like Sweden where unions don't have legislative power I'd by all means belong into one. And considering that so many more in Sweden belong in unions vs in Finland I am not alone in my thoughts.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#44

Post by KozmoNau7 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #38
TorKlingberg wrote: post #26

The fundamental problem is that these filter lists are maintained by random volunteers, who everyone just assumes are trustworthy. The browser makers avoid the issues by having ad-blockers be third-party extensions. The extension makers don't make the filter lists either, they just import from EasyList and similar. It's surprising there arent't more cases of corruption and broken trust. I wish I could get ad-blocking…

I'm not familiar with it but aren't Apple doing things with built-in adblocking these days? As an aside (but still relating to your comment) I tend to trust my adblocker based on the "many eyeballs" theory and I think the OP and ensuing discussion here is proof that the system mostly works.

I know Firefox uses Disconnect.me's filter lists, which do have a company backing them.

I trust gorhill to make the right decisions when it comes to uBlock Origin and the filter lists it uses, based on his previous track record, his stance on Adblock's "acceptable ads" and his refusal to take donations from anyone.

I don't necessarily trust the individual list maintainers[1], but I do trust that gorhill will quickly purge any filter lists that try to put in shady changes.

[1] I do trust the maintainer of the DNK list. He's a former colleague of mine, and I know how strictly principled he is in regards to ads and tracking.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#45

Post by TekMol »

simias wrote: post #32
TekMol wrote: post #3

I found that for me a whitelist makes more sense then a blacklist. I use umatrix with these two default rules: * * * block * 1st-party * allow So by default a site can load whatever it wants from its own domain and nothing from 3rd party domains. Then I add rules as needed. The Umatrix interface makes this super easy.

Can you teach me this skill? I usually don't mind steep learning curves and taking a while to familiarize myself with a piece of technology if I believe that I'll end up benefiting from it (I type in dvorak, use a tiling window manager, I'm a shell power user etc...) but try as I might I just can't wrap my head around umatrix. I understand what it does, I just don't understand how to use it effectively. Like I just t…

I don't run uBlock. Only umatrix. So my situation is different then yours. As I said, I don't blacklist specific hosts. I blacklist everything. And then whitelist specific hosts.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#46

Post by ahje »

jarcane wrote: post #25
sharpneli wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. The card carrying union members in our company are protesting the strike. They want the union to focus on their contracts and not go against government some of the members potentially voted for. So it’s a bit more complex issue. I just wanted to tell HN readers that there even is such a thing as a political strike.

If you do not stand with all workers, you will be divided, and fall. That's what solidarity means. I have a cushy tech job, with a big company, so the recent attempted changes probably won't affect me at all. But if they can go after those it will and get away with it, then next time they will come for me, and there will be no united front left to defend me. The alternative is we end up like America, and as much as s…

This. So much this.

From my point of view, the Sipilä government is working with own best interest in mind, even though I actually do believe they also think that's what's best for the country.

Being selfish now won't help me if I need someone else's solidarity in 15 years though, so I'd rather support the cause now and know that I did what I could when it mattered and not when it happened to suit me.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#47

Post by afarrell »

VMG wrote: post #4
occamrazor wrote: post #2

Adblocking list should be what their name says: lists that match ads (and advertising-related trackers). There is no place in such a list for politically motivated blacklists. Content based blacklists have their place too. Users are of course free to create hate-speech-block, union-block, trump-block, liberal-block, nazi-block or any-other-category-block, but if these lists are distributed through an adblocker they s…

I really wish the internet would be client-side filtered by default, instead of centrally moderated. We'll end up with filter bubbles either way.

The advantage to your proposal is that I can unfilter when I actually have the focus to meaningfully engage with public policy questions, rather than when I first wake up and am too tired to question my biases.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#48

Post by vbezhenar »

Adblock broke websites more than once for me. `.btn.btn-primary { display: none }` and similar things. They are fixed relatively fast, but if user uses adblock, he must be aware that this addon can and will broke websites, so he must know how to disable it if something doesn't work. Not saying that politics has place in adblock, of course, but worse things happened.

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#49

Post by simias »

TekMol wrote: post #45
simias wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you teach me this skill? I usually don't mind steep learning curves and taking a while to familiarize myself with a piece of technology if I believe that I'll end up benefiting from it (I type in dvorak, use a tiling window manager, I'm a shell power user etc...) but try as I might I just can't wrap my head around umatrix. I understand what it does, I just don't understand how to use it effectively. Like I just t…

I don't run uBlock. Only umatrix. So my situation is different then yours. As I said, I don't blacklist specific hosts. I blacklist everything. And then whitelist specific hosts.

I'm asking about the whitelisting process: when something breaks how do you figure out what you have to whitelist? Many websites load dozens of external resources, how do you figure out what does what?

Re: Adblock filter rule list modified politically in Finland

#50

Post by ahje »

sharpneli wrote: post #43
jarcane wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do not stand with all workers, you will be divided, and fall. That's what solidarity means. I have a cushy tech job, with a big company, so the recent attempted changes probably won't affect me at all. But if they can go after those it will and get away with it, then next time they will come for me, and there will be no united front left to defend me. The alternative is we end up like America, and as much as s…

The difference is in methods. Not on the concepts. As an example I aim for system where employment is at will but that is balanced by strong social security and unemployment benefits. It kinda gives best of both worlds. When you are not screwed when you're fired you don't need insanely strong protections. I refuse to accept that as a worker I have to support decisions that I personally think as stupid just due to "so…

Please don't look at Sweden as an example for how it should work. Personally, I'd prefer a system more like the Danish one, with unions that are less politicized but with a social welfare net that will catch you fairly quick if you need to change jobs or get fired or whatever.

I worked on that side of the Pond for almost a decade, and was quite involved in the union where I worked. They're quite politicized there as well although I heard the Social Democrats are slowly losing their grip of the larger unions now.

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