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Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

economist.com

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Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#141

Post by User23 »

avar wrote: post #136
Bombthecat wrote: post #82

It is on my list of languages I want to learn! Because I think it will be the second most spoken language in Europe. But as others already wrote: the dialects are very strong and different.. So, not sure which one to learn :) Any advise? Or maybe prediction which will win the "language" war in Europe?

> I think it will be the second most spoken language in Europe Arabic has 4-12 million speakers in Europe depending on how you count. If we take the most generous estimation (12 million) which compares 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants to native speakers it's at best the 13th most spoken language in Europe[2]. Why do you think it'll displace all the languages that are currently ahead of it? 1. https://en.wikipedia.or…

Parent is extrapolating from the trend.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#142

Post by User23 »

gumby wrote: post #22

I learned MSA and some Egyptian and there really are things you can say in it that are almost impossible to express in English (or the other European languages I know). This is true of any pair of languages of course but structurally the root system allows much more nuance and overtone than more workmanlike languages like English. I believe Hebrew (which I don't speak!) has a similar structure though I've been told b…

No offense, but this might just be an issue with your command of English. If you can't communicate nuance in a language with north of 600,000 words and an incredibly rich literary tradition, it might not be the language that's the problem. English has aggressively adopted loanwords, which gives it such breadth.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#143

Post by sonnyblarney »

mega_behemoth wrote: post #135
sonnyblarney wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"English won the game because bits and bytes were invented in English" English as the dominant language in Science is a new thing, just 100 years ago it was German.

Whether new or not, Computers speak English. Game over for German/French/All others.

Computers speak binary, not English - and computer code has almost nothing to do with Anglo dominance.

Have a look at a map.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#144

Post by mega_behemoth »

So my original comment was flagged, possible by many sharia clerics floating around here. It was deleted. All I've said: "Nothing with importance is being produced in Arabic, especially in the last 1.4 years". Is this forum now abides Strict Sharia law ? f that. I thought hackernews readers are intelligent in average. clearly I was wrong.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#145

Post by jpatokal »

CydeWeys wrote: post #132

As a typical American who mostly just speaks English, the #1 most useful language I wish I also spoke is Spanish. It's pervasive, both in the US and elsewhere. I'm currently in Barcelona for a conference and this is the third time in 1.5 years I've been in a Spanish-speaking country for a conference. The only other language that can have a similarly credible case for learning it would be Mandarin, but unlike Spanish,…

That's a rather US-centric worldview. Looking at the official languages of countries, French and Arabic are probably the most useful worldwide, with Spanish third and Chinese (Mandarin) indeed largely useless outside greater China.

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/35348/as-a-native...

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#146

Post by bunkerbewohner »

Gormisdomai wrote: post #96

Arabic's grammar system should also be fascinating for any computer scientist. The majority of MSA vocabulary is generated by predictably transforming "root strings" of 2, 3 or 4 letters. Beyond just English style conjugation, this means that every verb can predictably be transformed into a set of nouns, every noun can be traced back to to its original root verb (the same for adjectives and adverbs). For example Root…

It's certainly interesting in theory. But in practice, how do you distinguish between a bookshop, library, office and desk when all of those things can be referred to by "maktab"?

And does inferring / generating words this way actually work? For example, can I say "makra" (مقرأ) for "Library", a place where you read? Based on the verb "yakra" (read).

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#147

Post by amasad »

mega_behemoth wrote: post #131
amasad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all of science and philosophy was done in Arabic during the middle ages so "1.4k years" is an overestimate. Without the Arab and Muslim scholarship much of Greek/Roman wisdom would be lost. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Cl...

Those "muslim" scholars were mostly not arab,, and were constantly being accused for heresy. It is smart people that produce science and not Islam. The only science Islam has produced is the magical benefits of drinking camel urine and Hijama. No thanks.

>It is smart people that produce science and not Islam

Who said anything about Islam generating the science. You're just a bigoted asshole looking for a way to bash islam.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#148

Post by mega_behemoth »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #143
mega_behemoth wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether new or not, Computers speak English. Game over for German/French/All others.

Computers speak binary, not English - and computer code has almost nothing to do with Anglo dominance. Have a look at a map.

Computers speak voltage, not binary. Come on. Do you write software using binary ? Technology speaks English.

In theory, you can invent the wheel and use Arabic for programming. Good luck finding resources and finding users who are willing to use your new programming language that uses Arabic alphabet and use your Arabic javadoc.

Using multiple languages to achieve the same goal is stupid. Pure overhead. English dominates the world, end of story.

Re: Arabic, a great language, has a low profile

#150

Post by Tor3 »

arijun wrote: post #100
lozenge wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duolingo only teaches vocab and shows you example sentences to teach grammar. It doesn't have any explicit teaching, which means it's less effective the further the language is from English. But, they just like advertising their 30 or however many language options.

I disagree. I'm using it to learn another language that is far from English, albeit one with much simpler grammar. I find it more effective than a grammar heavy course. You can know every rule of a language and still not be able to speak it at all. What you need is internalization of those rules via practice, which Duolingo provides.

It depends heavily on the language course. Duolingo's Italian course actually manages to teach grammar and usage through their standard translation setup, while their Japanese course does nothing of the sort. It does not work very well for the latter, I've been through most of it by now and it's just translation-translation-translation, which doesn't teach you much at all, because the translation to English really doesn't work with Japanese. For example, they keep translating 'itadakimasu' (いただきます in Hiragana) to "Let's eat!", but that's not what it means. Otherwise the taxi driver wouldn't ask you '1980 yen itadakimasu'.. :) (and that's just one, there are so many.)
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