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Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

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Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#261
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to consider how the US was originally intended to be organized, which is radically different than what is has become. States were envisioned as practically independent nations which would be tied together by an extremely minimal set of shared rules and obligations. The constitution doesn't really lay out many rules for states at all. What it does lay out is mostly just things preventing states from taking on…

> it makes no sense for the constitution to tell states how they can or cannot vote. This was antithetical to the entire notion of what the United States was supposed to be The United States was originally "supposed" to be made up of a number of slave states where a large chunk of the population wasn't allowed to vote (but their numbers still counted for seat allocation). Everything follows from there - they went to…

I don't really agree with your perception of what the current state of affairs would be without the federal government, nor the ideology behind the founding of the US. However, that's tangential to the important point - which you do indirectly hit on. The swap from a state based system to a federal based system most fundamentally changes the scope of operation. Good things, such as the direct termination of slavery, can affect the entire nation at once. On the other hand, this power also comes with an equal but opposite negative. In that bad things can now also affect the entire nation at once.

So for instance not that long ago in the past we were enforcing eugenics from federal level down. In the famous supreme court case Buck vs Bell, where the US federal government ruled in favor of eugenics, supreme court justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously said, "We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Three generations of imbeciles are enough.".

Interestingly enough that ruling has never actually been overturned. The reason that eugenics fell out of fashion lay largely with a certain German enthusiast. If not for him it's not unreasonable to imagine the federal level dystopia that we were starting to consider going down. When things are enacted at the state level this gives people the option of getting away from the insanity. When things happen at the top, leaving your country is usually not a practical option.

And so too for the question I was responding to. Should it be legal for foreigners to vote in US elections? Maybe, maybe not. It would probably depend heavily on the state in question. But thanks to our system, that question can no longer be answered by states. In 1996 the federal government made it illegal at the national level.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#262
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping the price of labor down is exactly what they're talking about. She knows that illegal immigrants providing cheap labor won't affect her wages and allows her to hire people to do manual labor for dirt cheap, so she accuses people of being xenophobic racists if they aren't fine with exploiting illegal immigrants to provide cheap labor.

Huh? She's trying to highlight the hypocrisy in people who want border walls but then demand those services at cheap rates. This is nothing specific to her own thinking and want of cheap labor. It's purely calling out the conflicting stances.

And once again the kind of people who hire others to mow their lawns or deal with their kids won't have their own wages affected by the cheap labour those illegal immigrants will bring.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

Of course on a web-site for nerds, commentaters are going to focus on an irrelevant technical detail and miss the larger point.

I don't see how it's an irrelevant detail. If enforcing the speed limit does indeed save lives then I'm more inclined to accept some loss of privacy.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#264

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

Plus your chance of being hit at all is much lower at 30km/h because the driver has more time to react.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#266

Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Or better yet, why not devise a real time geolocation device to be embedded in cars and then lobby for it to be nationally adopted so people literally can't speed? The reality is that very few people want to live in that world and even if we do fully adopt technologies like th…

> Sure and while you're at it why not implement cameras all over every roadway to automatically ticket you every time you break the speed limit. This is a common and interesting sarcasm. It is interesting because the law is indeed that drivers should get a ticket every time they break the speed limit (or for any other driving offence). These technologies enable the law to be applied absolutely for the first time. The…

>> Many people seems uncomfortable with that, which is interesting.

The part I'm uncomfortable with is how do we know that the cameras are setup correctly? What third party company is actually receiving the tickets before sending them out? How much are they getting from each ticket, etc?

Without transparency there's no way to trust them. If there was a way to trust them I'm sure things would be a little different.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general but I think "A car traveling 30 mph is absolutely as lethal as a car traveling 10 mph faster than that." is a bit weak. The speed of cars matter, obviously. If you are hit by a car driving 50km/h you will die 8 out of 10 times. If the car is only driving in 30 km/h you will only die 1 out of the 10 times. In other words, it's not a linear scale and the idea that you can drive a bit faster without m…

Of course on a web-site for nerds, commentaters are going to focus on an irrelevant technical detail and miss the larger point.

Of course on a web site for nerds, commentators are going to claim that a massive loss of life due to what they consider to be some irrelevant factor is just a technical detail which can be ignored.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#268
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Generally I'm against government spying and tracking, but I really don't think cities could afford the traffic situation of every driver obeying the speed limit. Think about how many commuters exceed the speed limit every single day, and imagine if every person were forced to actually drive the limit at all times. I would expect at least a 10% increase in on-road-tra…

Perhaps if the speed limits were enforced with nearly 100% efficiency, they might be changed. Until then speeding fines are pretty much state sponsored highway robbery.

Agreed. I'm convinced that some laws are kept only so they can be used as leverage for police officers to legally interfere with your life/collect revenue. Artificially low speed limits are one I would consider.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#269
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ticket you every time you break the speed limit. Generally I'm against government spying and tracking, but I really don't think cities could afford the traffic situation of every driver obeying the speed limit. Think about how many commuters exceed the speed limit every single day, and imagine if every person were forced to actually drive the limit at all times. I would expect at least a 10% increase in on-road-tra…

"Imagine" isn't data. I wouldn't be so sure. Rubber necking causes a lot more traffic... Side note: Stop speeding please. You're endangering other people.

It's not difficult to work the logic out.

If ##% of commuters exceed the limit to get to work, and they are forced to cease, then the time and highway space they save speeding would instead be added to the overall stress of traffic. That would have ripple effects against people who drive the limit, and would cause everyone to need more commute time. The question comes whether the added stress would be debilitating for other commuters.

Edit: I'm a _very_ conscious and aware driver, and agree that driving fast is dangerous for many people. It's an unfortunate situation we're in, where the busted family wagon must defend against the drunk loony in the sports car. Sometimes however, the drunk loony in the sports car has to defend against the family that's fighting inside the wagon.

Re: Amazon Pitches Facial Recognition to Monitor Immigrants

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not disagreeing with the first part of your statement, but, for the second part, a reasonable remedy would be to simply lower the cost of each violation. e.g. if almost everyone got speeding tickets, but they only cost $15 and didn't involve any points against the driver's record or insurance premium hikes, people would simply pay up and probably speed less often. complaints about the injustice of speeding tickets wo…

Tragically, reasonable fees for bad behavior encourage the opposite behavior: all guilt evaporates and folks feel entitled to the behavior, after all they can pay for it. Famous studies of charging parent who were late picking up children from school, everybody started doing it and gladly paying.

Ok, but, could it be that the fee charged to parents was simply too low?

Can't we just view "the right to speed" as a service offered by the government and then apply the usual price and demand logic to it?

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