Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 546 posts

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#391

Post by mikestew »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #375
mark_l_watson wrote: post #32

I like Tim Cook, I think his heart is in the right place and as much as a corporation can, Apple generally does the right thing. I was having lunch with several lawyers at my company a few weeks ago. One of them was talking strongly about quality devices and Apple’s strong privacy stance. He literally said that we as a society should be grateful for having Apple.

"I think his heart is in the right place and as much as a corporation can, Apple generally does the right thing." Don't assume moral disposition when a CEO is talking his book. Maybe Tim is really a good person, who knows? But if Tim were the CEO of Facebook he'd be singing a different tune. Don't underestimate the ability of CEO's to align their personal views with that of he company. Apple is sensing blood in the w…

I agree with you, but is it not better that the "talking head" follow the company line rather than their own moral compass? IOW, whether the CEO believes it or not, the company's moral compass says "we're all about privacy for the time being" and the CEO speaks as appropriate to that topic. But if it's the CEO using their personal moral compass, well, that could change with the next CEO. Additionally, the CEO might say one thing, but have a board fight them tooth and nail over it.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#392

Post by ThomPete »

stephenr wrote: post #257
ThomPete wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm that wasn't actually what I said. So not sure how to respond to that.

You literally said: > I would also caution against the push for almost complete privacy as that IMO leaves out a number of potential advantages from systems having enormous amounts of data about us. So I created an example. Forget my example if you wish, I still have the same question. What benefit is there specifically, from companies "having enormous amounts of data about us"?

But I also said:

"This is where I think the decentralized part becomes really valuable. How can we own our own data but exchange it with others and build trust over time just like we would in the real world."

So not sure why you are asking about about something that is only part of what I wrote when I elaborate further down.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#393

Post by mikestew »

kstrauser wrote: post #363
tinco wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is cynicism, but I'm pretty sure this is just Apple exploiting a competitive edge, and does not necessarily reflect his own opinion, he is speaking to benefit the company. Of course, it's very nice that Apple made the decision to pick this edge, but they did it because they could not compete with Google on web services. So now they're publicly speaking to try and take the sting out of Google's edge. And th…

> Perhaps it is cynicism, but I'm pretty sure this is just Apple exploiting a competitive edge, and does not necessarily reflect his own opinion, he is speaking to benefit the company. That's my favorite thing about it: I trust their motives. If Cook were saying this but we knew that the board was getting pissed off about it, I would worry that it was just a matter of time. But Apple is making billions by protecting…

That makes it much, much less likely that they're going to announce one morning that they're abandoning privacy and going all Facebook.

One other thing that I'm trusting to keep them from "going all Facebook" is that privacy is the only thing making them something other than "me, too". The day they jump in with the rest is the day I clean out a house full of Apple gear, and I'm pretty sure they know that (or likely more accurate, the day I quit buying more Apple gear).

Apple's virtual assistants, mapping, and other services are arguably inferior to other offerings. I trust they won't bail on their one distinguishing feature.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#394

Post by briandear »

drb91 wrote: post #337
mark_l_watson wrote: post #32

I like Tim Cook, I think his heart is in the right place and as much as a corporation can, Apple generally does the right thing. I was having lunch with several lawyers at my company a few weeks ago. One of them was talking strongly about quality devices and Apple’s strong privacy stance. He literally said that we as a society should be grateful for having Apple.

I would phrase it differently. I am grateful for Apple, but we should not be—asking companies to have morals is like asking rain to fall upwards. Regulation is the appropriate method for dictating companies to behave in a certain way.

The market is an appropriate method for dictating companies to behave in a certain way. The market could speak tomorrow and Facebook could be finished. That users are apathetic isn’t a failure of the market.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#395

Post by sizzle »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #342
da_chicken wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people wonder why I've argued that, at some point, IT needs to be a certified and regulated profession like lawyers, doctors, engineers, nurses, pilots, accountants, electricians, plumbers, teachers, etc. If the future is going to be built using software and data, it's probably going to be essential that the general public have some agency -- public or private -- to safeguard the public interest. It takes years o…

I generally like the idea— it's probably a sign of maturity. I'd add that it would be nice to be able to operate outside of certain fields and certain types of operations without that level of certification. For instance, freelance web devs, small business software employees, etc who aren't dealing in things like personal or trivial data could continue operation. For example: you don't need to be a doctor to be certi…

I agree, what do you think about some enforceable "do good" prior consent laws, in the same vein as scientists trying to do research on humans and requiring prior consent, where if you are caught being unethical towards the people on the other end of your work product, then there will be sanctions and steep penalties equal to how severe the work is judged against harming human rights etc.

How do you modify the above idea if you think it has merit?

"I'd also like to see—if that kind of regulation were to pass—the inclusion of some kind of grandfather clause that would include the ability to test without formal education."

Why not have some sort of certification process you can do while working that holds the individual accounts to the values of being unethical and will have consequences for not adhering to, at all levels like on the scale of GDPR violations.

Also there should be steeper penalities against companies acting in bad faith, similar to GDPR for human rights. Thoughts?

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#396

Post by breatheoften »

I think that framing these new requirements as rights is a really good approach.

Being able to find out what data is being collected and how it is being used is a prerequisite for any accountable system of balances that could create negative incentivizes for abusive practices.

Obviously preventing all abuse will prove impossible just as preventing all crimes of any other type is impossible — but as with other kind of crime, undesirable outcomes can definitely be reduced when deliberate will is informed by wisdom and fueled by effort ...

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#397

Post by kodablah »

reacharavindh wrote: post #376

Disclaimer: I use Apple products, and trust them slightly more than anything Google/FaceBook/startups because they don't have a business front selling my data to advertisement companies or 3rd party miners(as much as I know of). But, I'm baffled by this PR as if they are the privacy messiah. Didn't they just sellout their Chinese users icloud data to the Chinese government? Yeah. "It's the law, and Apple has to obey…

When thinking about this juxtaposition/hypocrisy, we should also consider the differences in consequences wrt collecting data for advertisement use vs giving data to an oppressive government.

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#398

Post by parthdesai »

tomnipotent wrote: post #298
parthdesai wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when you make blistering attack on "data industrial complex" and advocate privacy, you are held to the golden standard in the entire world. I personally believe that Apple complied to Chinese government's demands is because their bread and butter is in that country (the entire manufacturing of hardware devices).

Do you follow the laws of foreign countries when you travel, even though you live somewhere else?

If they are that immoral to you, you can just choose not to visit that country.

Edit: Would you go and visit North Korea on a vacation with your family?

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#399

Post by parthdesai »

hellofunk wrote: post #288
parthdesai wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when you make blistering attack on "data industrial complex" and advocate privacy, you are held to the golden standard in the entire world. I personally believe that Apple complied to Chinese government's demands is because their bread and butter is in that country (the entire manufacturing of hardware devices).

Sounds like you are suggesting Apple should have simply stopped doing any business in China. Simple, right?

No, just observing the hypocrisy in their pro-privacy statements. Or is it that privacy of Chinese users is not worth the same as that of wester users?

Re: Tim Cook makes blistering attack on the “data industrial complex”

#400

Post by parthdesai »

fhood wrote: post #291
parthdesai wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but when you make blistering attack on "data industrial complex" and advocate privacy, you are held to the golden standard in the entire world. I personally believe that Apple complied to Chinese government's demands is because their bread and butter is in that country (the entire manufacturing of hardware devices).

i.e. they don't have a choice?

So, maybe don't say hypocritical statements like this? Google's and Fb's core business is ad-tech. Do they have a choice when it comes to data-collection? (I say this as someone who has uninstalled both Messenger and Fb app)
Post reply on HN