Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 205 posts

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#41

Post by dorfsmay »

_mtkq wrote: post #7

An "academically correct" solution (i.e., not to taint the prestige of a scholar who cites the solution) would be to cite a real, proxy scholar who checks the solution, but gives all credit to the anonymous 4chan user. Scientists often abhor citing from blogs, forums, and Wikipedia, as those publications "are not peer-reviewed by trustworthy professionals".

The problems with blogs and wikipedia is that they can be changed, or in the case of blogs disappear.

For wikipedia, you should reference the specific version of the article, which will never change.

For blogs, or wikipedia articles you feel might get deleted, you can reference a specific version from archive.org.

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#42

Post by flyingfences »

flatline wrote: post #23

Isn’t this result in every introductory combinatorics textbook?

You're misunderstanding the problem. It's not a question of the number of permutations. It's a question of the total number of episodes that must be watched to have seen all possible permutations.

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#43

Post by sandov »

k__ wrote: post #16
ceejayoz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ethically do you even have to cite something properly when the person who solved it was intentionally anonymous? Yes. Not because they need/want the credit, but because it's important to note that it's not your idea. > If the concern is that people will think the person writing solved it, they can just write a sentence where it came from. That is, basically, what a citation is.

Who can proof that it isn't your idea?

4chan

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#44

Post by empath75 »

ASipos wrote: post #38

Come on, this is a myth. I work in math and it is not at all unusual to cite informal sources. Also, someone should inform Greg Egan: http://www.gregegan.net/SCIENCE/Superpermutations/Superpermu...

If you click through the links, he's in the google groups thread talking about it.

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#45

Post by anticensor »

RowBoat6123 wrote: post #35
montenegrohugo wrote: post #2

This is fantastic. Imagine having to cite "Anonymous user on 4chan" on your paper. I'd probably just do it for the novelty (who else can say they have a more unusual source??)

Bill Thurston cited personal communication with himself, which is a pretty unusual source.

I will reject a paper if it references a private communication with author oneself. Just tell the truth, undisclosed prior work.

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#46

Post by ortusdux »

The Haruhi problem reminds me of De Bruijn sequences, aka why I don't trust 5 button keyless car entry systems. Fords keypads do not have return keys, delays, or attempt limits. A 3125 button sequence can guarantee you will unlock the door. It would take about 10-20 minutes for someone who has practiced to break in. Someone this year made a bot that did it in about 5 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bruijn_sequence

https://hackaday.com/2018/06/18/opening-a-ford-with-a-robot-...

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#47

Post by firdak »

Looking at this from the other side, if a non-mathematician "solves an interesting problem", is there a recommended way to make the solution public? Something better than posting to 4chan?

Is it possible to publish a result properly if one is not a mathematician and not affiliated with an institution?

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#48

Post by UncleMeat »

kop316 wrote: post #27
_mtkq wrote: post #7

An "academically correct" solution (i.e., not to taint the prestige of a scholar who cites the solution) would be to cite a real, proxy scholar who checks the solution, but gives all credit to the anonymous 4chan user. Scientists often abhor citing from blogs, forums, and Wikipedia, as those publications "are not peer-reviewed by trustworthy professionals".

I actually feel that the response here is a great one: "I feel like you should be able (forced even!) to cite things that aren't journal articles- even blog posts- if they contributed to your body of work. But citing things that aren't prestigious reduces the perceived prestige of your own, which is a perverse incentive not to cite." EDIT: I can't seem to figure out how to link to specific tweets, so this is the guy…

Is that actually true? I have no experience in grad level math but in my field (security) people frequently cite all sorts of non academic content. I've personally done it a lot of times and never heard anything about it from reviewers.

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#49

Post by chrislipa »

mietek wrote: post #40
RowBoat6123 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Thurston cited personal communication with himself, which is a pretty unusual source.

Inevitably, I’m going to have to ask for a reference.

He used to sit on the floor of his office with the lights off under a giant moving box and brainstorm math.

Reference: personal communication

Re: Nobody knows how to cite 4chan mathematicians who solved an interesting problem

#50

Post by kop316 »

ahjones wrote: post #31
kop316 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually feel that the response here is a great one: "I feel like you should be able (forced even!) to cite things that aren't journal articles- even blog posts- if they contributed to your body of work. But citing things that aren't prestigious reduces the perceived prestige of your own, which is a perverse incentive not to cite." EDIT: I can't seem to figure out how to link to specific tweets, so this is the guy…

Click the date/time on a tweet to get the permalink. Here's the tweet you referenced: https://twitter.com/_delta_zero/status/1054820799473836032

Ahh, that was the one place I did not look, thank you!
Post reply on HN