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When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

nytimes.com

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Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#71

Post by sgt101 »

whoisjuan wrote: post #14

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

Which is why legal measures to force distribution, openness and shared ownership between stakeholders are essential.

Otherwise eventually looters force liabilities onto taxpayers. Human liabilities, or material ones.

For capitalism to work it needs rules, transparency and infrastructure. Our choice is simple : Brazil or Norway.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#72

Post by sgt101 »

Aloha wrote: post #54
whoisjuan wrote: post #14

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

If a company choose to not prefund its pension when times are good, they can't complain about it when times are bad.

Astonishingly in the UK it's actually illegal for companies to do this.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#73

Post by calewis »

eropple wrote: post #47
nradov wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that most Amazon employees have defined contribution retirement plans rather than defined benefit pensions. So Amazon is less likely to end up in a death spiral due to unsustainable expenses. And if Amazon does go bankrupt the employees' retirement funds won't be impacted (unless they invested in company stock).

Most Amazon employees don't make enough money to meaningfully contribute to those retirement plans, though.

This is exactly the right point to be making.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#74

Post by snarfybarfy »

mjevans wrote: post #41
jorblumesea wrote: post #4

If you're making 30k / year, having any kind of equity in lieu of traditional compensation (bonuses, wage increases) is an extremely risky affair. Amazon's stock has increased x6, but that is not normal, nor is it indicative of future performance. For those living paycheck to paycheck, there are far better methods of compensation that will ensure a higher quality of life without huge amounts of risk. An increase of j…

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort. An extra 1-2 an hour or whatever... However then the prices of everything would go up for everyone, just like they are everywhere. When the 'living wage' 15 USD/whatever minimums are passed don't the prices of everyday living just rise to meet that extra cash in the market? Meanwhile everyone who was previously making a little above minimum w…

One can also argue that rising minimum wages directly benefit the economy as this money will be immediatly consumed.

Giving $10 to a poor person will result in $10 more goods and services demand. Giving $10 to a very rich person will probably make 1/10th of a share change hands and have no effect on the real economy whatsoever.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#75

Post by mruts »

kopo wrote: post #29
callalex wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as every pension/retirement fund of the rest of us...

These are "Passive" investors. Wall Street doesn't care about them. Reality reflects it.

That's just not true at all. Everyone's money goes into the same pot. And "passive" investments are essentially just crowd-sourced active investments.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#76

Post by CydeWeys »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #53
stella_r wrote: post #27

I joined Amazon as an SDE 1 in early 2015. I was promoted to an SDE 2 in q4 2016. I just was promoted this year to SDE 3. Hard work, navigating to the right projects, and managing both upwards and down... senior and junior people on my part... I feel a bit ripped off. I'm not sure I would have wanted to get promoted knowing where my comp now falls. The thing I'm unhappy about is that my target comp isn't actually tha…

Curious about how many hours you would say you work each week? Or how many total hours per year? A normal 40 hours per week is usually seen as about 2000 hours per year.

The exact definition of a full time salaried position, as defined by the federal government, is 2087 hours per year, FYI.

Why such a weird number? Because it takes leap years into account: 365.24 × 5/7 × 8

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#77

Post by CydeWeys »

tomcam wrote: post #50
makotech222 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Question without an agenda here, honest: what would you replace it with?

How about what works well for many European countries? A more progressive taxation scheme (i.e. the opposite of what Trump's done) combined with a more generous social safety net (e.g. public healthcare).

The US is facing wealth inequality right now almost on par with the gilded age, which resulted in serious social upheaval. Other than the gilded age, and especially for a long period in the last century, wealth equality has much better then than it is now. We could go back to that at least, for starters. But ever since Reaganomics we've been seeing more and more wealth accumulating to those who already have it. Democrats get elected and aren't able to make headway against it (or don't try very hard), but when Republicans get elected they make it worse (look at the Bush and Trump tax cuts).

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#78

Post by Tsubasachan »

Bricejm wrote: post #33
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily disagree with many of your points, but I think drawing attention to the end of Sears’ lifecycle is an unfair thing. Someday Amazon too will have an end of life, and employees and shareholders will get fucked over then too. The article also draws attention to how workers benefited _in good times_ at Sears, not near the end. And this is where the comparison is most meaningful, where Amazon is more q…

Agreed. I worked at Sears in college (~15 years ago) loading dock/warehouse. It was a great job at the time. Good pay, plenty of hours, and generally good managers. The downfall of Sears had very little to do with wages, but Amazon crushing all brick and mortar stores. We were dependent on foot traffic, and sales flyers in the Sunday paper - things that don't do much today.

True. Amazon, and ecommerce in general, took off because they beat old retail in prices and inventory. I can buy a pair of shoes right now and have it delivered for free in 12 hours. The margins web stores operate on are razor thin. Efficiency is king.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#79

Post by Tsubasachan »

skookumchuck wrote: post #62
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily disagree with many of your points, but I think drawing attention to the end of Sears’ lifecycle is an unfair thing. Someday Amazon too will have an end of life, and employees and shareholders will get fucked over then too. The article also draws attention to how workers benefited _in good times_ at Sears, not near the end. And this is where the comparison is most meaningful, where Amazon is more q…

> in good times Unfunded pension liabilities is how you have good times now and wreck the future.

Which is why you should fund them. A sizable part of my monthly salary is automatically diverted to my pension fund. Mandatory.

There used to be a time when old people were poor. Now retirees are the economic engine.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#80

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

paulpauper wrote: post #17

Yeah I remember Bernie Sanders praised Amazon's decision in a tweet, but only later did people and the media realize that increasing the minimum wage came at a cost to other things, such as stock compensation. no free lunch guys.

I'm not sure what Bernie Sanders has to do with this other than trying to steer this into yet another irrelevant partisan political debate.
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