When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated • Hacker News Board

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#51

Post by chii » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:01 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #41

jorblumesea wrote: post #4

If you're making 30k / year, having any kind of equity in lieu of traditional compensation (bonuses, wage increases) is an extremely risky affair. Amazon's stock has increased x6, but that is not normal, nor is it indicative of future performance. For those living paycheck to paycheck, there are far better methods of compensation that will ensure a higher quality of life without huge amounts of risk. An increase of j…

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort. An extra 1-2 an hour or whatever... However then the prices of everything would go up for everyone, just like they are everywhere. When the 'living wage' 15 USD/whatever minimums are passed don't the prices of everyday living just rise to meet that extra cash in the market? Meanwhile everyone who was previously making a little above minimum w…

Which is why I'm in favour of a profit sharing scheme. You get rewarded the productivity of your work.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#52

Post by chii » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:04 AM UTC

jrmg wrote: post #28

stella_r wrote: post #27

I joined Amazon as an SDE 1 in early 2015. I was promoted to an SDE 2 in q4 2016. I just was promoted this year to SDE 3. Hard work, navigating to the right projects, and managing both upwards and down... senior and junior people on my part... I feel a bit ripped off. I'm not sure I would have wanted to get promoted knowing where my comp now falls. The thing I'm unhappy about is that my target comp isn't actually tha…

My total comp this year is upwards of $250k, but basically I got shafted Only in our industry...

If the person did 1 mil dollars worth of work, but only got compensated a quarter of a mil, isn't that getting shafted?

Just because the numbers are bigger, doesn't mean it is less deserving of being fair.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#53

Post by patrickg_zill » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:06 AM UTC

stella_r wrote: post #27

I joined Amazon as an SDE 1 in early 2015. I was promoted to an SDE 2 in q4 2016. I just was promoted this year to SDE 3. Hard work, navigating to the right projects, and managing both upwards and down... senior and junior people on my part... I feel a bit ripped off. I'm not sure I would have wanted to get promoted knowing where my comp now falls. The thing I'm unhappy about is that my target comp isn't actually tha…

Curious about how many hours you would say you work each week? Or how many total hours per year? A normal 40 hours per week is usually seen as about 2000 hours per year.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#54

Post by Aloha » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:07 AM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #14

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

If a company choose to not prefund its pension when times are good, they can't complain about it when times are bad.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#55

Post by reaperducer » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:09 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #41

jorblumesea wrote: post #4

If you're making 30k / year, having any kind of equity in lieu of traditional compensation (bonuses, wage increases) is an extremely risky affair. Amazon's stock has increased x6, but that is not normal, nor is it indicative of future performance. For those living paycheck to paycheck, there are far better methods of compensation that will ensure a higher quality of life without huge amounts of risk. An increase of j…

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort. An extra 1-2 an hour or whatever... However then the prices of everything would go up for everyone, just like they are everywhere. When the 'living wage' 15 USD/whatever minimums are passed don't the prices of everyday living just rise to meet that extra cash in the market? Meanwhile everyone who was previously making a little above minimum w…

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort.

It’s happened before. But that was when Bush was president, and on the internet we’re supposed to pretend that he didn’t do anything good.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Stimulus_Act_of_200...

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#56

Post by michaelmrose » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:45 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #35

Why does the article keep comparing warehouse workers at Amazon with salespeople at Sears? Those don't seem like comparable positions (sales comp is often very performance based) and thus, compensation wouldn't be the same. Maybe compare the salespeople at Sears with account managers or some similar position at Amazon?

Most positions at retailers are compensated at a fixed hourly rate.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#57

Post by michaelmrose » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:10 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #41

jorblumesea wrote: post #4

If you're making 30k / year, having any kind of equity in lieu of traditional compensation (bonuses, wage increases) is an extremely risky affair. Amazon's stock has increased x6, but that is not normal, nor is it indicative of future performance. For those living paycheck to paycheck, there are far better methods of compensation that will ensure a higher quality of life without huge amounts of risk. An increase of j…

It would be really nice if EVERYONE not in the 1% got a raise of some sort. An extra 1-2 an hour or whatever... However then the prices of everything would go up for everyone, just like they are everywhere. When the 'living wage' 15 USD/whatever minimums are passed don't the prices of everyday living just rise to meet that extra cash in the market? Meanwhile everyone who was previously making a little above minimum w…

This argument comes up every time raising the minimum wage and its just bad math and bad economics.

Around 3% make the federal minimum wage raising the minimum wage to say 10 would barely move the needle as far as the available money supply. If most people have the same amount of money then rational actors aren't going to raise the prices much.

On the other hand a person going from 7 dollars an hour to 10 will have 43% more money in their pocket.

It ought to be intuitively obvious that the benefit to the poor is not related in a linear fashion to prices.

If you were to graph an expected increase in price based on minimum wage they would expected to become close to proportal when an increase in minimum wage was also the average wage.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#58

Post by rhizome » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:16 AM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #14

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy... I mean, let's be realistic here. For how long was Sears in this pitiful state?... Getting all that real estate + semi-established brand was a private equity's wet dream, yet nobody ever contemplated that option. And now tha…

Sears' huge pension liabilities was cited as one of the main reasons that prevented any possible re-structuring that could have saved the company when it was declining and heading to bankruptcy

This was before or after it had been stripped of assets?

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#59

Post by CobrastanJorji » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:23 AM UTC

stella_r wrote: post #27

I joined Amazon as an SDE 1 in early 2015. I was promoted to an SDE 2 in q4 2016. I just was promoted this year to SDE 3. Hard work, navigating to the right projects, and managing both upwards and down... senior and junior people on my part... I feel a bit ripped off. I'm not sure I would have wanted to get promoted knowing where my comp now falls. The thing I'm unhappy about is that my target comp isn't actually tha…

First, back up a second and appreciate your position. You were an SDE 1 in 2015, and you're an SDE 3 now. You're making over a quarter million a year. Your career is on a rocket trajectory. Most SDEs don't ever even make it to 3.

Should you leave? Yeah, probably, but only because that's my general advise to most Amazon SDEs. Many (but certainly not all) of the teams there are not super fun to work for. Odds are you'd be happier at any given alternative. Maybe your team's great, but you seem pretty unsatisfied, so yeah, leave.

Should you leave because of the money? Probably not, no. You're at the bottom of a new pay grade. You'll probably be making more over the next couple of years, and if you're on track to Principal, whoo boy is there money there. On the other hand, they say a recent promotion is a great time to quit. Go interview with Facebook or whoever and see if they'll pay more for an Amazon SDE 3 than Amazon will. Who knows, maybe they'll even buy you your unvested shares.

Re: When Sears Flourished, So Did Workers. At Amazon, It’s More Complicated

#60

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:32 AM UTC

forapurpose wrote: post #46

steve19 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon realized that they kept getting a black eye because of their wages so of course they pivoted. Now some workers are probably worse off. I blame the media for only caring about sensationalist headlines.

> I blame the media Amazon isn't responsible for its own decisions?

To some extent, maybe. But then again, if you poke a bear with a stick and it mauls you, nobody will blame the bear.

If we expect responsibility for decisions to companies, then it's only fair if media outlets too are held responsible for the consequences of misapplying public pressure.