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Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

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Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#61

Post by victor106 »

olliej wrote: post #56
wonderwonder wrote: post #45

Anecdotal story, a few years ago my dad had a heart attack. He was self employed, living the american dream so no insurance. He had to stay 2 nights plus ambulance ride. Total bill ~80k. I kid you not, 3 days after he got out my mom shattered her wrist and was taken to emergency surgery. ~40K. They wracked up a bill slightly less than their mortgage in under a week. Of course they could not pay and the hospital dropp…

That’s easy - medical debt isn’t written off by bankruptcy. So they’re pretty much guaranteed unending money.

Source?

“Medical debt can be completely discharged if you qualify for Chapter 7 bankruptcy or you can pay it over three to five years through a Chapter 13 repayment plan”

https://www.thebalance.com/tactics-to-deal-with-medical-debt...

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#62

Post by fma »

wonderwonder wrote: post #41
benmorris wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've had 2 children in the last 4 years and this concept was foreign to me. Our 2nd child we were billed for an out of network anesthesiologist at an in network hospital. Several thousand dollars in total, I called the insurance after reading online a bit about it. Eventually they said they would "resubmit" the claim for reconsideration. A few weeks later we got an EOB showing we didn't have to pay any of it. The wh…

How could they go out of business? Any time they need money they can just go through patient records and charge for anything they feel like with very little statute of limitations. Its a license to print money at the expense of those that can least afford it.

Yep...I got an email last week for something for my daughter's birth...which 2 years ago. It was charged to an insurance I no longer have. I met deductible that year so everything was covered and it says I'm paying $0. They could lie about the some missing cost and I wouldn't know where to begin disputing it. If I don't successfully dispute it, it goes to collections and hurts my credit. Is my time worth disputing a $500 bill (it I had to pay it?).

It's a lose lose situation.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#63

Post by iwiririwo »

xienze wrote: post #30
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

Part of it is because consumers are completely detached from the price aspect of medical care. Getting an estimate, shopping around? Forget it. It’s a black box. And, frankly, part of it is because hospitals can’t refuse care to anyone and if they can’t pay, someone else has to.

That's what mandatory insurance is for. Everyone pays what they can, and gets what they need. Doesn't work perfectly, but allows me to go to a hospital anytime without being broke after.

There's benefit for everybody, which is risk reduction. You actually blame poor people for going to the ER in case of emergency.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#64

Post by wonderwonder »

olliej wrote: post #56
wonderwonder wrote: post #45

Anecdotal story, a few years ago my dad had a heart attack. He was self employed, living the american dream so no insurance. He had to stay 2 nights plus ambulance ride. Total bill ~80k. I kid you not, 3 days after he got out my mom shattered her wrist and was taken to emergency surgery. ~40K. They wracked up a bill slightly less than their mortgage in under a week. Of course they could not pay and the hospital dropp…

That’s easy - medical debt isn’t written off by bankruptcy. So they’re pretty much guaranteed unending money.

Parents were US based so Bankruptcy was an option. In the US to the best of my knowledge the only thing not discharged in a Ch. 7 is student loans and debt obtained fraudulently.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#65

Post by MichaelApproved »

randyrand wrote: post #29

While it wouldn’t be my first go to, I have to wonder if complete 100% deregulation would be better than what we have today.

Why would you even entertain that thought? When has anything even remotely the size of healthcare been 100% deregulated and successful?

Why go for such far out nonsense like this when there are perfectly good examples of successful healthcare models in other countries.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#66

Post by smacktoward »

dang wrote: post #48
smacktoward wrote: post #9

As the person who submitted this story, I have a question: why was Sarah Kliff’s name removed from the headline? I submitted it with the same title it carries at CJR, which includes her name. The story is a profile of her and her work, so removing it makes the headline less informative, not more. And she’s not a celebrity, so mentioning her by name doesn’t make the headline any more clickbaity than it would be withou…

We often remove names from titles, because HN works better when the focus is on content rather than personalities. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

But it's an interview with a specific person, focused entirely on her work. The entire content of the article is tied to who she is and what she does. Removing her name from the headline just obliterates the value of the headline as a way to determine what you're going to see when you land on the other side of the link.

This is a misguided policy and I hope you reconsider it.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#67

Post by maxxxxx »

xienze wrote: post #30
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

Part of it is because consumers are completely detached from the price aspect of medical care. Getting an estimate, shopping around? Forget it. It’s a black box. And, frankly, part of it is because hospitals can’t refuse care to anyone and if they can’t pay, someone else has to.

"And, frankly, part of it is because hospitals can’t refuse care to anyone and if they can’t pay, someone else has to. "

I think that's a cheap excuse they have to rip off everybody else. I would like to see the actual numbers of people who aren't paying and what losses they incur.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#68

Post by rdtsc »

outworlder wrote: post #10
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

I got an abdominal ultrassound, because some of my bloodwork was off and the doctor wanted to confirmed my liver was ok. Very routine. So I agreed. 15 minutes from the time I got to the reception desk to the time I was out of the door. Hospital billed $6000 (already negotiated down with insurance). Insurance paid around $4000. They wanted me to pony up 2k. Told no. Went to collections, negotiated to just under 1000.…

Ultrasound is a quick and relatively simple procedure. They could get a few in the ER and a few technicians on staff. Then doctors are encouraged to say bloodwork is off let's do an ultrasound and there you have it - $4k / 25 minutes. Bill the insurance and keep raking in the money.

Normally I'd say that's far fetched but after having relatives advised to get unnecessary surgery I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#69

Post by smacktoward »

novalis78 wrote: post #51
viburnum wrote: post #38

Just nationalize the whole damn thing already.

...and make it 15 times as expensive, unfortunately.

This is the exact opposite of the truth. The US spends a disproportionately high amount on health care compared to other industrialized nations, and receives worse outcomes from that expenditure to boot. See https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-... for details.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#70

Post by joe_the_user »

ForrestN wrote: post #2

Kliff's approach to covering healthcare is nothing short of miraculous. She's killing it on all fronts—dominating the beat as far as traditional reporting techniques, innovating new ways (like this) to unearth information, and on top of it, communicating an intricate and sometimes abstract area of public policy in a way that anyone can understand and relate to. In general, I think vox.com is underrated. But Kliff in…

While Kliff's work seems good, the title has the "Helping X, one Y at a time" problem.

The actually state of affairs is that arbitrary hospital bills are a problem that won't be solved one hospital at a time but rather are going require regulation, not just on all hospitals but of health care broadly.

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