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Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

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Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#31

Post by dreamdu5t »

dreamdu5t wrote: post #26
robertAngst wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great, but our US government has failed us for 30 years on healthcare. Not sure why anyone thinks that tax dollars would make the problem better.

No. Politicians favoring policies that deliberately exclude the poor have failed us for 30 years. We have never been able to make extensive progress on healthcare because voters elect politicians that fight against government health insurance (even fighting against spending government money on insurance for the disabled and elderly). Free market ideologues have failed us, not the government. This is painfully obvious…

Let's see, Republicans are for denying healthcare to people who can't afford it (a free market). Democrats are for ensuring access to healthcare for everyone, including those who can't afford it (using taxes, so everyone who can pay pays and the rich cover the poor).

It's pretty fucking cut and dry at this point. We can dispense with the philosophical grandstanding.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#32

Post by kevingadd »

outworlder wrote: post #10
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

I got an abdominal ultrassound, because some of my bloodwork was off and the doctor wanted to confirmed my liver was ok. Very routine. So I agreed. 15 minutes from the time I got to the reception desk to the time I was out of the door. Hospital billed $6000 (already negotiated down with insurance). Insurance paid around $4000. They wanted me to pony up 2k. Told no. Went to collections, negotiated to just under 1000.…

This is basically the reason I have Kaiser and have stuck with them for over a decade. The quality of service is shaky sometimes, and there is doctor turnover, and sometimes I have to travel relatively far to see a specialist - but if a KP physician refers me for something, I get scheduled to see someone, then I get it done, and I pay a reasonable copay that I know about immediately. I've never had to haggle with insurance or been surprised with fees later, even for relatively complex surgeries.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#33

Post by apsec112 »

outworlder wrote: post #10
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

I got an abdominal ultrassound, because some of my bloodwork was off and the doctor wanted to confirmed my liver was ok. Very routine. So I agreed. 15 minutes from the time I got to the reception desk to the time I was out of the door. Hospital billed $6000 (already negotiated down with insurance). Insurance paid around $4000. They wanted me to pony up 2k. Told no. Went to collections, negotiated to just under 1000.…

Goddamn, are you me? I have the exact same story. Minor blood test anomaly, liver ultrasound, 30 minutes, surprise $6,000 bill. Pretty sure it's the same hospital too.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#34

Post by joecool1029 »

Heh, funny they brought up the rabies vaccine anecdote. I was jogging and had a bat fly into my eye one night. This was during a period in my early 20's when I didn't have health insurance. My bill was around $14k for the immunoglobulin and vaccine series.

I paid somewhere around $2k out of pocket for ER fees. There was a program through Sanofi Pasteur and the CDC to pay for it for people under a certain income threshold. Seems it's bad press if Americans catch symptoms of rabies and die, since prevention is straightforward... and it is such a deadly disease.

The kicker was, around a year after this... the hospital reported me to collections for nonpayment of the full amount. I begged the guy that I submitted the application to, to provide me with a record of being covered under this program. Thankfully he violated HIPAA law and did it. Provided me with a complete report of everyone paid under the program that month.

The hospital's response was to tell me to immediately destroy the document, citing privacy law, and to tell them where I got it from. I explained that I would not be doing that, and that I would go public with the situation to as many sources as possible. The next day the hospital had a meeting with their vice president and the head of their pharmacy department. Within the week, I had collections removed from my credit reports.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#35

Post by ceejayoz »

lucaslee wrote: post #19
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

Urgent care or walk-in clinics will likely cost much less. If it's a simple wound, a CVS clinic will work too. Some urgent care clinics post wait time online so you can find out how to see a doctor the fastest way.

> Some urgent care clinics post wait time online so you can find out how to see a doctor the fastest way.

These are often misleading, though - the clinics that market this way essentially perform triage with docs instead of nurses, so you're technically seen by a doc quickly. Time-to-discharge would be a far more useful data point.

They're also often marketing like this because they're standalone clinics that are out-of-network for major insurers in the area. https://khn.org/news/surprise-that-urgent-care-center-may-se...

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#37

Post by astrodust »

robertAngst wrote: post #16
airstrike wrote: post #5

> If you are bitten by a raccoon, you can’t really decide not to get the rabies vaccine. It’s literally a life-or-death situation. But the price is incredibly high. This, to me, is a perfect example of why healthcare should be subsidized by the government (either directly or through a government-backed insurance plan that you receive as a fallback). Health isn't a good or service you choose to purchase. Demand is per…

That sounds great, but our US government has failed us for 30 years on healthcare. Not sure why anyone thinks that tax dollars would make the problem better.

Something like 40% of Americans already receive "government health care" in some form or other. Any government employees, military, police, teachers, fire fighters, and so on, receive health care. Anyone who qualifies for Medicare does.

Just push that number to 100%.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#39

Post by wonderwonder »

irrational wrote: post #12
halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

Not just ER. We went to urgent care with a bean stuck up my sons nose. The doctor spent about 30 seconds getting it out. We were in and out in 10 minutes or so. The bill was $2000.

Should have planted that bean. Maybe it would have grown an entire stalk of $2,000 beans.

In all seriousness, that they are able to charge that much with no upfront warning is pretty insulting. But then again they know they have you hostage, its not like you are going to change your mind and tell the doctor to just leave it in there.

Re: Bringing transparency to ER prices, one hospital bill at a time

#40

Post by pcurve »

halflings wrote: post #4

I moved to the US about a year ago. Went to ER for the first time ~3 months ago. I was charged about $4000 for: - Cleaning a wound (with water/desinfectant). - Some antibiotics. - A band-aid and gauze. I get how, with labor cost and all, that might cost $200. Maybe $300? I have no idea how this can cost $4000.

In Japan or Korea, that would've been $50-$100 tops without insurance.

And almost all hospitals are walk-in without appointments, and many big ones have night coverage.

ER? sure, it's there. But only if you have rebar sticking out of your torso.

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