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How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

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Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#151

Post by cvwright »

explorigin wrote: post #19
wbl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

> If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns.

Counterpoint: Lots of people, especially those who had not-great experiences growing up in the church, tend to go hard in a different direction when they grow up.

In "Blue Like Jazz", Donald Miller talks about how he thinks it would be super cool to belong to a relatively obscure (in the US) denomination like the Greek Orthodox --- that is, unless he had grown up Greek Orthodox. Then he thinks it would be totally lame and predictable.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#152

Post by packetslave »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #150
jonshariat wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Jesus Culture is the other big player in the space.

There's also IHOP, Passion 268Generation (Chris Tomlin, Matt Redman, David Crowder Band), and Worship Central from the UK (Tim Hughes, Ben Cantelon).

oh, Passion is a good one. I don't normally associate Tomlin, etc. with them because they're all such huge solo artists these days (vs. someone like Kristian Stanfill).

Chris Tomlin is especially big in terms of writing songs that modern churches play. There's a reason we called it "Good Good Grief, We're Playing This Again?" on my worship team :-)

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#154

Post by seem_2211 »

wbl wrote: post #17
peterburkimsher wrote: post #3

Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play. If a teenager can pick up a guitar and lead their friends to sing along with easy lyrics, it'll be a hit. A satirical take on this is How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls Translations of Hillsong music into other languages are also popular. 約書亞樂團 Joshuaband translate some songs into Chinese, and it was a hug…

I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.

I think both can be good?

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#155

Post by bmj »

richgroot wrote: post #110
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like he hangs out with a bunch of psychopaths who missed the core message of what they're congregating for.

I knew Stanley several years ago when we attended the same church. I'm not a psychopath and neither were the other folks in our congregation. Stanley was a good teacher but a bit of a monotone during the songs. I hope he is still doing well. Good man.

Well, Stanley is known for overstatement, and there's a good chance this is hagiographic. But, I take the point to be that we need to be on guard about what we call worship because it does form us.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#156

Post by giancarlostoro »

hotcrossbunny wrote: post #126
giancarlostoro wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They share a bit of commonalities with IHOP. I think they might mean their "internship" program is a scam. Look into how IHOP is a cult / scams young people. Its a lot of fluff. My cousin too joined one of the internships but for her own reasons and thankfully she knew better so by the time she got out she just knew we were right about them, except she knew the whole enchilada. In the case of IHOP they have sexualize…

Took me quite a while to work out you weren't talking about pancakes

Hah I had wondered the same thing when I found out about them, I should of explained. Heard their name too often for a few years.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#157

Post by seem_2211 »

bartread wrote: post #24
socceroos wrote: post #12

As a conservative, I've never really paid any attention to Hillsong stuff. What I did hear of typical pentecostal music struck me as pretty shallow and.....commercial. Admittedly as an ignoramus, I do wonder how they get around tax exemption while they rake this all in. I know you can't brush everyone with the same stroke, but it feels reminiscent of those mega-pastors that fly around in their private jets to shake h…

Uneasy is the word I'd use as well. And in saying this I have to be honest and admit that I can't point to anything specific that's wrong . Hillsong often get the plaudits (and the rap), but there are other similar movements. Worship Central and HTB here in the UK spring immediately to mind. I do go to these kinds of places from time to time and, whatever the organisation, you talk to the people involved: they're app…

I attend a small (100-150 person) church in SF, and it's super trendy. People are dressed fashionably, the music is current (including a ton of hillsong), the church has a great instagram, pour over coffee beforehand etc. But at least in the case of my church, that's a reflection of the people that go there and make up the congregation and their talents, alongside what people do for their day jobs and have trained professionally to do.

I think it's similar with churches like Mosaic in LA and Hillsong broadly speaking - they attract a lot of young people who are skilled in these areas and then those young people go on to use their talents in service to the church.

But that's not the point and it should never be the point. The teaching, the community, these things are far more important than the production values. I guess my thinking is that this polish is fine, as long as it's due to the talents of people in the church, rather than a need to impress others and put on a show so to speak.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#158

Post by expathacker »

GuacheSuedeHN wrote: post #142
expathacker wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that all religious tax-dodges are scams if you're an atheist. My businesses and lack of faith don't get a free-ride, but I have to subsidize that of somebody else's? By this logic, it's a cool business hack to run a megachurch and buy your own 737 without paying taxes, not a scam?

You can say the same thing about liberal ogansisations. why the hell does someone else have to pay for your abortion ?

Can you please tell me whose abortion you've actually paying for lately? The laws around Planned Parenthood's funding are quite clear, and government money does not pay for abortions, which is misfortunate. Planned Parenthood is audited more frequently than any other organization in the United States.

What do your tax dollars pay for in regards to Planned Parenthood? Things that Medicare should be paying for, but fails at, specifically, reproductive care for women, including obstetrics, which should go well with your pro-birth agenda (I'm not going to dignify it with the phrase "pro-life" because once the baby comes out, the "pro-lifers" seem to run for cover)

Meanwhile, when it comes to giving my tax dollars as welfare to your religion, your conservative agenda infringes upon my constitutional rights established under the 1st amendment to our constitution (in case of the USA).

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#159

Post by wbl »

rjmunro wrote: post #77
explorigin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

I think that to people who haven't spent serious time listening to it, all organ/choral music "sounds the same".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MwDDK3jodw is Eric Whitacre. It's recent. Now contrast to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4DCG-nFBI by Martin Luther. I doubt those two can ever be confused. And that's not even Xenakis! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jESS3gP1GGE

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#160

Post by camelNotation »

weberc2 wrote: post #143
camelNotation wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is such a thing as 'progress', after all. That's a bold claim that too many people accept without question and about which too few actually consider the implications. Progress is improvement. It's moving forward. The notion requires accepting the idea that you were at one point behind where you are now or not as developed/complete/refined. That's fine if you are talking about technology or some other mundane…

You've got it switched. Progress in the context of Christianity logically follows from the notion that some things are better/truer/holier than other things. If you can accept that anything has gotten better/truer/holier over time, then you believe in progress. Specifically, if you believe it's good that the Church is no longer teaching poor people that they have to pay for their family to go to heaven, then you beli…

By using something like indulgences as an example, you're making a false equivalency. It's certainly possible to call it progress if you are RECOVERING from a fall. You start high, dip down, progress back up to where you were. Indulgences did not exist in the early church and didn't even exist outside of the European church when they were a thing. In that context, the recovery of what was true was not progress, it was repair.

But to imply that from the BEGINNING Christians were incorrect on something as important as sacramental theology and the role of music in sacramental theology is a completely separate claim with severe implications, as I described above.

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