Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

christiandailyjournal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 166 posts

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#41

Post by bmj »

explorigin wrote: post #19
wbl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

Stanley Hauerwas (theologian) had this to say about music in worship:

One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#42

Post by bartread »

barrow-rider wrote: post #31

"You're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock and roll worse" -H. Hill. https://i.redd.it/5iqvu91yz0ly.jpg

Amazing. How have I never seen that before? Made me laugh primarily because it resonates quite strongly for me (although I suspect not for everyone).

There are Christian artists I've really enjoyed. Iona spring immediately to mind, although I haven't listened to them regularly in years, but the relevant points are:

1) Their lyrics tend to have more substance to them.

2) Even if the style isn't your cup of tea, there's some real and undeniable musicianship on display.

Although way poppier, and with edgier lyrics, I'd probably put Switchfoot in the same category.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#43

Post by redbeard0x0a »

bartread wrote: post #29
explorigin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul . I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well…

> I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag

We forget that people are extremely varied, there is room for everybody. An infinite God probably doesn't create only ~3 "right" ways of worshipping, living, serving, teaching, etc.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#44

Post by bartread »

zellyn wrote: post #36
bartread wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uneasy is the word I'd use as well. And in saying this I have to be honest and admit that I can't point to anything specific that's wrong . Hillsong often get the plaudits (and the rap), but there are other similar movements. Worship Central and HTB here in the UK spring immediately to mind. I do go to these kinds of places from time to time and, whatever the organisation, you talk to the people involved: they're app…

For me, the big problem with this kind of musical/theatrical production is that you're doing one thing — provoking excited emotions and feelings in a group context, just as would happen at a well-produced secular concert, or a moving, personal comedy show — and implicitly or explicitly claiming that it is a personal religious experience. Many times with young people who don't know the difference. I suppose it might b…

> you're doing one thing — provoking excited emotions and feelings in a group context, just as would happen at a well-produced secular concert, or a moving, personal comedy show — and implicitly or explicitly claiming that it is a personal religious experience. Many times with young people who don't know the difference.

That is a very thought-provoking perspective, which I think I'll probably be chewing over for a while - thanks for sharing it.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#45

Post by netcan »

I went to a few Hillsong events about 10 years ago, when the church was becoming very obvious cultural influence Australia-wide. There is a lot that's very entrepreneurial about this church. They also started Gloria Jean's, a big, international Starbucks competitor. Like the music stuff, this had to do with youth culture and creating social aspects to the movement.

In Australia a lot of people called the denomination "charismatic churches" which is largely overlapping with "evangelical" in the states, where it comes from. The larger family of denominations has been growing and internationalising at a serious pace.

In any case, when it comes to religion, opinions are.. sensitive. But, I think the recent history of this religion is worth learning about, for those interested, just because they've been "making things happen". Religions are pretty diverse structurally, from one another.

Hillsong and related movements (mostly descendants of American evangelical denominations) tend to be quite decentralised. The Church (institution) and the church (building/parish) are almost the same thing. They don't have a traditional, top-heavy hierarchy (bishops, cardinals) and they don't have a traditional local parochial structure.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#46

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

bmj wrote: post #41
explorigin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

Stanley Hauerwas (theologian) had this to say about music in worship: One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your be…

Sounds like he hangs out with a bunch of psychopaths who missed the core message of what they're congregating for.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#47

Post by JshWright »

camelNotation wrote: post #30
explorigin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

That's a very modern perspective, not necessarily consistent with Christian theology at all. The notion that people in the ancient world or simply older people today enjoy church music out of preference seems to ignore the fact that street music and folk music were NEVER comparable to church music. The idea behind unique liturgical music was that the structure of the music itself revealed something about the nature o…

As with all things, this is complicated, and your description is only one facet of the history of music in the church.

For instance, a major component of the Protestant Reformation was encouraging congregational singing, and (particularly Calvanist) church composers of the era brought the music of the church much closer to the contemporary "popular" music of the day.

Re: How Hillsong Church conquered the music industry

#50

Post by gtycomb »

wbl wrote: post #17
peterburkimsher wrote: post #3

Hillsong music is simple, catchy, and easy to play. If a teenager can pick up a guitar and lead their friends to sing along with easy lyrics, it'll be a hit. A satirical take on this is How to Write a Worship Song (In 5 Minutes or Less). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYuA0Cz8ls Translations of Hillsong music into other languages are also popular. 約書亞樂團 Joshuaband translate some songs into Chinese, and it was a hug…

I am not a Christian, but I feel like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffg4mU7FNE&t=2s is far more divine sounding then someone with a guitar as in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io2WOQ-3aVs . Sadly my faith tradition is stuck with Debbie Freedman.

The Bach Cantata here is marvelously moving, so let me put in my $0.02. When Bach wrote his music, he was also at the cutting edge of the technology of his age. The pipe organs were great accomplishments of that mechanical age. The churches then embraced the technology and music as new wave churches of our age (and with similar resistance).

Bach was an ultimate nerd, adept in technology of his generation. He knew about organ construction like few did and he earned an income as consultant from pipe organ construction projects that required much risk taking and investment. One has to be technical enough to know a lot about the physics of sound producing, metallurgy (look into the tin/copper content of the pipes to make sure the builder hasn't taken shortcuts etc. ), inspect bellows, air controllers, and suggest design changes, etc.

To the ordinary towns people this might have looked like Moog synthesizer or Hillsong innovations of today. Lets not forget that Bach faced significant career threatening opposition on the musical structure of these very Cantatas that were composed when he was Cantor at St. Thomas in Leipzig where he taught music. His music was too new for most of them too...

Post reply on HN