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Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

repl.it

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Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#211

Post by joepie91_ »

tekromancr wrote: post #172
Klathmon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't answer your questions, but I firmly believe this is the major reason node took off in popularity. Npm let you install packages minutes after being installed, and they went right into a folder right there, and they didn't conflict with any other packages on your system. I was like you and played with python for years but never anything larger than small scripts, and every time I went to do "real" python I…

On the other hand, as someone who knows a little js from the bad old days but has been doing python for over a decade, trying to get up and running with a modern js environment seems totally cray cray to me. Usually, for me, I start by installing node. Ok, so I guess I need to install npm now. No problem, I guess that's like pip. Oh, I need yarn. It's better? Ok, I guess python had the same growing pains with easy_in…

The problem with your reasoning: none of this is actually necessary, short of npm, so this is absolute nonsense.

Like, I realize that these "you need so many things!!1!" narratives are popular ways to complain about JS, but if you're adding random junk to your project without a clear reason for it, that's really your responsibility and yours alone.

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#212

Post by talltimtom »

Xeronate wrote: post #163
brownbat wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Getting Python to run correctly is not only one of the hardest parts of learning to code, but comes right at the beginning so before people have experienced any success. This is a surreal statement to read as someone who basically just writes and runs nearly pure Python in a text editor.

So does pretty much everyone. The problem is with setting up virtual environments and managing packages.

So much more harm than good is done trying to get new users to use virtual environments. Just get them started with straight up python, tell them that the solution to “couldn’t find X” is always just to type pip install X in a terminal and leave them to it. They’ll figure out the rest long before it becomes relevant and they won’t have need for it until long after they figure it out.

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#213

Post by talltimtom »

anc84 wrote: post #200
sixhobbits wrote: post #77

Python, the "second best language for everything", has had a huge impact for teaching people programming. Beginners can do useful and interesting things and solve real problems after a few hours of learning. And yet the number of times I've seen beginners completely discouraged or even give up programming forever because they have conda and pip and brew and pyenv installed and can't run a basic script after 4 hours o…

On Linux it is all quite easy. On Windows, just install WinPython or Thonny and you are good to go.

Don’t install thonny, it’ll fail in horribly odd ways for a multitude of widely used simple to use libraries. Just go for winpython or anaconda, and use a text-editor or IDE that’s stable.

The last thing you want new users to run into are issues where odd interrelations between your “editor” and the runtime cause problems that google can only find issue descriptions about.

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#215

Post by darkerside »

nonce725 wrote: post #205
darkerside wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a counterpoint. It's ok that you don't know what docker is. It's ok that you don't know what a shell is. What exactly is the nature of the dismissive attitude from others that has held you back from learning? Perhaps these are real opinions, but consider the source. If they are smarter than they are rude, and their opinions hold value, maybe suck it up and learn something. If it's not worth it to you, ignore t…

Valid point about projecting my own feelings. I was more trying to make a point that if you're writing a guide or tutorial, actually start from the beginning.

I understand it can be frustrating, but keep in mind your beginning is different from other people's beginnings. It's similar to the problem of telling the story of an historical event. Where do you start? To analyze the root cause of e.g WW1, you'd end up going back to the beginning of recorded history.

Part of learning to learn is learning to keep going through things even when you don't fully understand.

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#217

Post by dserodio »

mintplant wrote: post #176
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw poetry mentioned a few days ago. Haven't tried it yet but it tries to fix this: https://github.com/sdispater/poetry

Yes, I've uses poetry and it's great. I think it and the pyproject.toml standard will become the solutions to all the problems stated above.

Thanks, I'll give it a try. That's still a mess compared to npm, which is a single tool you can use for app and libs, in constrast with easy_install/setup.py/pip/pipenv/poetry/...

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#219

Post by qaminsod »

rorykoehler wrote: post #174
qaminsod wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a lot of value in going through the pains of setting up a development environment, writing build scripts, debugging environment issues, etc. > Beginners can do useful and interesting things and solve real problems after a few hours of learning. What real problems are beginners actually solving? I literally cannot think of a single one. Most introductory programming tutorials I've seen start off with…

>I think there is a lot of value in going through the pains of setting up a development environment, writing build scripts, debugging environment issues, etc. There is but not as the first thing you do. Even I still get frustrated with setting up new dev envs for new (to me) languages. I'd much prefer to just try it out first and then figure out the plumbing later. >What real problems are beginners actually solving?…

> That's a very elitist take. Firstly they are solving their own very real problem of not knowing how to code. Second they could have a very specific problem they want to solve that can only be solved by code.

It's not elitist, it's realistic. You haven't actually mentioned a 'real' problem they are solving through code.

> Isn't that exactly the same problem they are solving for beginners?

Not according to the comment I was responding to.

Re: Repl.it raises $4.5M from A16Z, Paul Graham, and others

#220

Post by qaminsod »

gmmeyer wrote: post #168
qaminsod wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a lot of value in going through the pains of setting up a development environment, writing build scripts, debugging environment issues, etc. > Beginners can do useful and interesting things and solve real problems after a few hours of learning. What real problems are beginners actually solving? I literally cannot think of a single one. Most introductory programming tutorials I've seen start off with…

I really couldn't roll my eyes harder at this. Yes, they're not building a distributed system. But they can do things that make them feel like they're solving problems.

Solving real problems is not the same as doing things that make you feel that you are through your imagination.
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