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China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

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Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#61
post #39

I was curious what Beidou meant, apparently it refers to the "Big Dipper": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeiDou_Navigation_Satellite_Sy...

Yep, Big Dipper as part of Ursa Major translates to something used as a wine vessel about 2 to 3 thousands year ago.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%96%97

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#62
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the US has never done any blocking in the GPS system. The article refers to a request by India for access to the military GPS signal and military equipment, which was not granted. The US, as well as virtually all other technological powers, does have the capability to jam GPS signals using ground, sea, or air-based jamming platforms but those are not part of the GPS system.

Yup it did - I was flying aerial surveying at the time. Bad timing. Actually I didn't notice anything in the end so was all good but when I saw the NOTAM I couldn't believe my bad luck. Edit - link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/07/us_military_testing...

Not sure whether you're agreeing or disagreeing, but that refers to jamming done by electronic warfare units, not part of the GPS system, as I indicated above.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the US has never done any blocking in the GPS system. The article refers to a request by India for access to the military GPS signal and military equipment, which was not granted. The US, as well as virtually all other technological powers, does have the capability to jam GPS signals using ground, sea, or air-based jamming platforms but those are not part of the GPS system.

The United States actually does have the ability to selectively degrade signals. I don't know enough to comment on this capability in more detail (another comment seems to indicate that it is through jamming). A relevant excerpt (from 2000) is below: > Additionally, we have demonstrated the capability to selectively deny GPS signals on a regional basis when our national security is threatened. https://www.faa.gov/abo…

As I indicated above, separate systems on electronic warfare platforms can jam GPS signals. This is not part of the GPS system, and is what the article refers to.

Building your own GNSS system does nothing to protect against electronic warfare platforms.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can destroy something without taking it out of orbit. The pieces will happily carry on along their orbital trajectories.

It's easier to put something in orbit than to hit something in orbit.

Not meaningfully. If you can get into a similar orbit, it's easy in comparison to intercept.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#65

No one seems to have mentioned that the US has actually blocked GPS signals before for military reasons (during the Kargil war in 1999): https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-... There's a good reason and precedent for China (and others; see GLONASS, IRNSS, Galileo) to be afraid of this.

No, the US has never done any blocking in the GPS system. The article refers to a request by India for access to the military GPS signal and military equipment, which was not granted. The US, as well as virtually all other technological powers, does have the capability to jam GPS signals using ground, sea, or air-based jamming platforms but those are not part of the GPS system.

> The US, as well as virtually all other technological powers, does have the capability to jam GPS signals using ground, sea, or air-based jamming platforms but those are not part of the GPS system.

As well as anyone that has access to basic electronic parts. It's very easy to swamp a 30 watt transmitter that's ten thousand miles away.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#66
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so in the event of a war the DOD can disable the civilian signal as the M code will work standalone, hence a third party nation cannot rely on GPS. They also had the option in older satellites of turning on selective availability, which would degrade the civilian location service from 5-meter to 100-meter accuracy without affecting the military service. Purportedly newer GPS satellites don't have the option anymore…

> Purportedly newer GPS satellites don't have the option anymore. That does sound suspiciously like something the military would want you to believe

Selective availability was defeated a very long time ago so no reasons to doubt that the military gave up on it. Pretty sure they're just using an encrypted transport for the military signal so they can do whatever they want to civilian GPS wholesale without impacting the military. However, I'm not sure how that will work since it underpins our entire economy from logistics to air travel. On the other hand, at the point the military is disabling civilian GPS probably the economic impact is less of a concern.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the US has never done any blocking in the GPS system. The article refers to a request by India for access to the military GPS signal and military equipment, which was not granted. The US, as well as virtually all other technological powers, does have the capability to jam GPS signals using ground, sea, or air-based jamming platforms but those are not part of the GPS system.

The United States actually does have the ability to selectively degrade signals. I don't know enough to comment on this capability in more detail (another comment seems to indicate that it is through jamming). A relevant excerpt (from 2000) is below: > Additionally, we have demonstrated the capability to selectively deny GPS signals on a regional basis when our national security is threatened. https://www.faa.gov/abo…

Selective availability was defeated a long time ago which is one of the motivations for Clinton formally turning it off in 2000. Also while I'm sure that the US military is fully capable of turning off GPS satellites however they want the efficacy of this is probably limited considering the coverage of GLONASS + EGNOS.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#68

GPS has become so ubiquitous I honestly forgot that it was something that could be owned. It is cool to see some competition in the GPS world.

GPS is aging technology, its satellites are dying already and its limits are showing clearly. It won’t be around forever.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#69

India did something similar a few months ago. Each country wants to build it's own GPS for military purposes. At some point we have to stop calling it 'Global' Positioning System.

Japan has its own positioning satellites (QZSS) that are only visible from the region around Japan. It’s designed so positioning works if you’re in a city with skyscrapers.

Re: China's GPS 'rival' Beidou

#70

GPS has become so ubiquitous I honestly forgot that it was something that could be owned. It is cool to see some competition in the GPS world.

GPS is aging technology, its satellites are dying already and its limits are showing clearly. It won’t be around forever.

That's not true... The U.S. is actually in the process of launching the next generation of GPS satellites.
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