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Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

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Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#81
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made the right choice :) I got to about 7 kyu, and then it suddenly hit me. Balance is key. Therefore you should concentrate on those aspects of your life which have become more urgent. I haven't played very much after that realization. In my view, Go (or any other hobby, really) would stand in one corner of the board. Your family, personal life, and work would be at the other three corners. As the situation on t…

With all due respect, I don't think it was the right choice at all. As I've studied go, I've learned large "life lessons" in an almost 1-to-1 correspondence. Even now, having hit diminishing returns at 5d, I still find it to be a wonderful exercise in metacognition; I can play a game to quickly see where my head's at. That's certainly not how everyone looks at the game, but for me, go is easily the most enriching sub…

I've tried to make one of these life lessons explicit, answering a question on Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/c1fb7/hey_ratheism_...

How do you come to terms with death?

Learn to play Go. The game has an opening, a middle-game, and an end-game. You can take them as metaphors for the stages of life.

The opening involves playing in the corners and around the edges of the board, perhaps on the third line emphasising territory, or on the fourth line emphasing influence. Metaphorically this is childhood and education. Perhaps going for a vocational qualification, such accounting or law is like going for territory, while studying philosophy or travelling round the world is like going for influence. Or perhaps such direct parallels are over-literal. The opening moves in a game are worse than difficult; the opening is down-right mysterious. Which makes it a lot like growing up. And it creates a situation as you enter the middle game that is different in every game. Much as every adult has their own baggage left over from childhood.

Perhaps the middle game is like adult life because things keep going wrong. Your opponent invades your territory or steals the eyes from a group. You have to fight back, invade his territory or sacrifice a weak group. Adult life makes similiar demands on your flexibility and fighting spirit. If you lose your job perhaps you can find a new one with a rival company for more pay. Or change career and become happier.

The middle game may see victory or defeat, just as life may come to a premature end in illness or death. Often though one survives to the end game. The boundaries of the territories must be decided and there is still time for ingenuity and an upset. It is the time of memoirs and collected works, of playing with grand-children and of making partial amends for past errors.

If you play in tournaments there is a clock, but it is set to 1 hour, not seventy years. There is time to think about your opening, to estimate the score and plan a path in the middle game, to look for some clever moves and to save time here and there with the obvious safe play. After 40 minutes you can estimate the score again. If you think you are ahead you can try to hold onto your lead through the end game. If you think you are behind you must chose between trying to catch up with some clever end game moves or perhaps a do or die invasion. Time matters. If you are short of time you will be unlikely to be able to think for long enough to come up with clever moves. But you should be ahead, having put the time to good use earlier.

Tournament play with 1 hour instead of 70 years is the heart of the metaphor. Both the game and real life have a narrative arc and time limits. You have to manage your time and act your age, taking the big points in the opening and leaving the end-game moves for the end-game, if you make it that far.

So my advice is practical advice and not the uplifting advice that you requested. It emphasises the practical issue of getting the hang of managing a limited stock of time.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#83
post #2

I learned how to play in Taiwan and it's become my favorite board game. I'm not very good though. Do you have any suggestions for improving?

1. Play lots of 9x9 games against a stronger opponent: http://www.smart-games.com/igowin.html 2. Study tsumego (life and death) problems. By study, I mean keep replaying the same positions until you can identify the sequence to live (or to kill) immediately. Study problems slightly more difficult than your own rank (maybe 1 or 2 stones). Do this for 15 minutes every day for 6 months and you will be quite strong. http…

It is (2) that got me. It just takes too much time that I've never had.

I'm probably 14 kyu.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#84
I always thought this would be a great game to teach to under privileged youth and the homeless.

Its also relatively easy to put together a makeshift go board. At most all one needs is white and black paint, brushes, rocks, a piece of plywood or plastic, and something straight to make the lines.

You could even teach them how to make their own board and pieces.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#85
post #57

Your intro read like prose. In a few short paragraphs I felt I was reading a novel. You have the touch. Are you a professional writer?

Not sure what you mean by prose. His writing was prose, so was yours.

You're right about his semantic mix-up, but surely you knew exactly what he meant.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#87
post #50

Do not play go. Just stay away it from it. I started to play go in Brazil while in high school and got addicted to it. Eventually I came to Japan to play go (I won't disclose the details because it'd be really embarrassing). Later I came to Japan to study Computer Go in grad school. I planned to to stay for 2~3 years. It's been 7 years now. I don't play go anymore, but I do harder stuff (karaoke, clubbing, etc). It's…

It sounds like a good story waiting to be told, not embarrassing. So many of our lives are spent following the path society has carved out for us; it's refreshing and interesting to hear about someone who had a desire outside of the mainstream and followed to an extreme.

Did you join one of the go cram schools?

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#88
I got to about 2kyu on KGS and was very addicted. Getting beyond this apparently required me to seriously dedicate myself to studying, though, and I had to deal with my normal life. So I haven't played in over a year.

I hope to start playing again sometime.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#89
post #45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I could. (If I could, I'd probably be able to omit the hedge at the start.) But here's the best I can do. 1. The rules of go are very simple. (Well, kinda. Use, say, the Tromp-Taylor ruleset.) 2. The resulting game is very subtle, in e.g. the following senses. (a) For any game, define an "increment" to be how much better you need to be than someone else in order to beat them 75% of the time. Then the num…

Wow. Superb answer, just what I was looking for. I'd actually heard your point 2 repeated several times, so I guess it's a common idea. By the way, one of the reasons I "like" Go (in a purely objective, looking from a distance without learning it kinda way) is that, from what I've heard, even average players can beat computers at the game. Obviously, this is mostly to do with accidental, mechanical facts about number…

Last I remember, most programs could play about 12-10kyu evenly and some specially augmented ones had hit dan levels.

Computer moves always looked unnatural to me, though, and you could often exploit this easily. I'd say most players are at least comforted by lack of computer headway into Go.

Re: Ask HN: Who Plays Go?

#90
For the vast majority of games people play, there exists a computer opponent that can beat just about anyone.

Go is an exception. Even a moderately experienced amateur can beat the best computer opponent easily. I think this says something about the richness of the game.

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