Sqlite: Code Of Conduct • Hacker News Board

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#91

Post by kqn35z » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:38 PM UTC

Sprign wrote: post #73

finnthehuman wrote: post #55

I am surprised at how dismissive and intolerant the comments here are of this code of conduct. And I say this as an atheist that still harbors a lot of resentment against my family's religion. Do you have so little empathy that you can't possibly image someone adopting The Rule of St. Benedict in good faith (no pun intended)?

I don't think that the problem is adopting in bad or good faith; personally I am saddened because the CoCs are meant to be there to protect people that are usually in a weaker position and in our development communities that usually identifies with a few categories: women, LGBT+, disabled people etc. Now if you look at it from this point of view I think that you can at least see the irony of using a religious text in…

> Those "thousands of diverse communities" include the ones who were using their religion as a pretext to burn heretics/witches, torture homosexuals and in general oppress the weak and the diverse as well as the ones that today are still trying to infuse young people with their toxic shame when they are non-conforming.

Wow, those Benedictine monks have really been up to some heavy shit.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#92

Post by drngdds » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

mikl wrote: post #87

An interesting mirroring of the popular CoCs these days. While they enshrine what one could call "San Francisco Democrat" values, this CoC enshrines christian conservative values. If you think value-based CoCs are fine, you shouldn't have a problem with this.

Because I'm not a complete moral relativist, I think there is a difference between good values and bad values

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#93

Post by jbogard » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:40 PM UTC

This is now the dumbest CoC I've seen today, and the RMS one set quite the low bar. Any actual enforceable CoC that may get adopted loses any credibility with this move.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#94

Post by caiocaiocaio » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

O2F2 wrote: post #10

Yes, it's meant as a joking stab at those who seemingly cannot live without having a CoC everywhere. Especially in projects they do not actually participate in. Now watch as this gets blown out of proportion, because this will make some people really, really angry. Id be very surprised if this stays up actually.

I don't think so. The CoC prohibits joking in clause 54.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#95

Post by mikl » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

drngdds wrote: post #92

mikl wrote: post #87

An interesting mirroring of the popular CoCs these days. While they enshrine what one could call "San Francisco Democrat" values, this CoC enshrines christian conservative values. If you think value-based CoCs are fine, you shouldn't have a problem with this.

Because I'm not a complete moral relativist, I think there is a difference between good values and bad values

That's almost a tautology. Everyone find their own values good, and other people's values less good (if not downright bad).

In any case, you might have gained some understanding of why other people get upset, when _your_ values are imposed on them.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#96

Post by stupidbird » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

Having a code of conduct isn't about creating rules, it's about making a public commitment to enforce them.

Now that they've shown us that they clearly don't care about a code of conduct, I wouldn't trust them to ever handle any actual conduct issues in a reasonable way. Maybe they'd just send me a joke instead.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#97

Post by Sprign » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

kqn35z wrote: post #91

Sprign wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the problem is adopting in bad or good faith; personally I am saddened because the CoCs are meant to be there to protect people that are usually in a weaker position and in our development communities that usually identifies with a few categories: women, LGBT+, disabled people etc. Now if you look at it from this point of view I think that you can at least see the irony of using a religious text in…

> Those "thousands of diverse communities" include the ones who were using their religion as a pretext to burn heretics/witches, torture homosexuals and in general oppress the weak and the diverse as well as the ones that today are still trying to infuse young people with their toxic shame when they are non-conforming. Wow, those Benedictine monks have really been up to some heavy shit.

Here the discussion was a bit broader and the point was about the religious context rather than the Benedictine themselves.

To be fair the Benedictine order wasn't one of the worst orders with respct to whole witch/heresy craze but that kinda furthers the irony of the whole situation: watching to the other side while someone is being persecuted (or bullied) puts you closer to the oppressor than to the oppresed.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#98

Post by smpetrey » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

This is 100% absurd.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#99

Post by sagichmal » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

mikl wrote: post #95

drngdds wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm not a complete moral relativist, I think there is a difference between good values and bad values

That's almost a tautology. Everyone find their own values good, and other people's values less good (if not downright bad). In any case, you might have gained some understanding of why other people get upset, when _your_ values are imposed on them.

And those people are wrong. It's OK, and necessary, for human beings to make ethical judgments. The correct position is one that minimizes suffering, not one that absolves itself of the responsibility to make difficult choices, in deference to some arbitrary, inhumane objectivity.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#100

Post by _pgmf » Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 5:15 PM UTC

If the code of conduct angers you, stop and think -- how did you feel one minute before you read the CoC? Is the problem really the CoC, or is it your collection of beliefs that is causing the problem? Furthermore, are you even affected? Do you contribute bug reports or patches? Follow the SQLite mailing list? Is anything here designed to prevent you from continuing to do so?

SQLite's author is a spiritual guy. There's nothing wrong with him borrowing from spiritual sources to describe his ideal for how he wants the SQLite community to conduct itself.