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Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

sqlite.org

81–90 of 301 posts

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#81
Leaving aside everything else, using the rule of St. Benedict and pointing out its influence on medieval thought seems like poor choice. Benedictine monasteries were often notoriously corrupt. There were frequent attempts at Benedictine reform, but it was almost always that case that in a few decades, the reformers would become more corrupt than those they were initially criticizing.

And, of course, is medieval government actually something to aspire to? Medieval European governments were extremely unstable, collapsed frequently (often due to assassination), rarely went a decade without civil war/armed rebellion, their legal systems were patchy and inconsistent, and almost all of them had laws which separated punishments for commoners and noble-born. The fact that medieval law was influenced by the Benedictine rule seems like a reason to reject it.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#82
Interesting to see so many people defending this, either on the basis of “it’s satire” or “it says you don’t have to follow every single rule.”

Would you be saying the same thing if it said “Allah” instead of “God”? What if it said you had to love Osama bin Laden? What if rule 1 was “love white people”?

Religious discrimination is poor fodder for satire and is not something we should just selectively ignore.

Edit: wonder what the downvotes are about. Don’t like seeing Yahweh compared to ObL, maybe? Well, my point exactly.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#83

I don't understand the purpose of this. I hope it's an elaborate joke, but it is surprisingly unprofessional. A few years ago I spent some time in their dev mailing list and proposed a patch. I doubt I'd still do this in this context. This code of conduct that requires members to honor th Christ, even as a joke, would make me reluctant to interact with SQLite.

It looks like the author is exactly the kind of people that made CoC necessary.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#84
post #79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious discrimination isn’t ok and being annoyed by it isn’t blowing things out of proportion.

I see the religious part of this CoC as purely incidental to the source material (it being 15 centuries old and aimed at christian monks). It's clearly not meat to be taken serious, even though I'd agree with a lot of the common sense points listed. Now, being a bit annoyed at the religious implications is not being really angry and blowing things out of proportion. Being annoyed still leaves room for discussion. Wha…

I see the religious part as being the entire point, since it comes from a religious order. The very first rule is about loving a particular deity. If we were to go back in time and find these people, what do you think would offend them more, “I hold grudges” or “there is no god”?

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#85
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I imagine it? Sure. Can i accept it? Hell no. I can imagine someone adopting in good faith a code of conduct that says “no colored people.” That doesn’t mean I’ll be happy about it.

What rules in St. Benedict are comparable to "no coloreds" in your mind? Or do you find them unacceptable due to the context, i.e. that they are part of a larger religious text?

The very first rule is comparable. We generally consider religious discrimination to be on the same level as racial discrimination.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#86
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving aside the religious aspect of the CoC which are probably going to be controversial the other rules are actually fairly common sense. A few that caught my eye: > Do not give way to anger. > Do not nurse a grudge. > Do not entertain deceit in your heart. > Do not give a false peace. > Do not swear, for fear of perjuring yourself. > Utter only truth from heart and mouth. > Do not return evil for evil. > Be not a…

> Respect your seniors How about just "respect people". I've literally seen how "respect your seniors" plays out in reality: any idea from new/junior team members is effectively ignored, because they're not 'senior' enough.

I agree. Giving someone undue respect just because they're old is ageism. Some old people never really grew up and are still jerks (I plan on being one of them; getting my grumpy on).

Respect everyone.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#87
An interesting mirroring of the popular CoCs these days. While they enshrine what one could call "San Francisco Democrat" values, this CoC enshrines christian conservative values.

If you think value-based CoCs are fine, you shouldn't have a problem with this.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#88
post #73

I am surprised at how dismissive and intolerant the comments here are of this code of conduct. And I say this as an atheist that still harbors a lot of resentment against my family's religion. Do you have so little empathy that you can't possibly image someone adopting The Rule of St. Benedict in good faith (no pun intended)?

I don't think that the problem is adopting in bad or good faith; personally I am saddened because the CoCs are meant to be there to protect people that are usually in a weaker position and in our development communities that usually identifies with a few categories: women, LGBT+, disabled people etc. Now if you look at it from this point of view I think that you can at least see the irony of using a religious text in…

[deleted]

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#89

Regardless if this is a joke or not, this is not acceptable, you can't put religious things in the code of conduct. Even if it is a joke, it is still awful and I wish that it gets removed quickly.

> you can't put religious things in the code of conduct.

Why not? Isn't the whole point of a code-of-conduct to describe the ethical values of a community? And isn't all ethics a kind of religion, even if it does not always make explicit mention of deity? From that point of view, every code-of-conduct is a credo, by definition.

Suppose I were to go in and edit St. Benedict's rules to omit all reference to "God" and "Christ", leaving behind such things as "do not steal", "do not nurse a grudge", "do not return evil for evil", and so forth. Would the document be acceptable to you then? If not, then what exactly are the ground rules for codes of conduct? And who makes those rules? Is there a code-of-conduct for codes of conduct?

If you answer "Yes" to the previous, then are you suggesting that you and/or I are somehow wiser than Benedict of Nursia, such that we are able to edit and improve upon his work?

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#90
post #10

Yes, it's meant as a joking stab at those who seemingly cannot live without having a CoC everywhere. Especially in projects they do not actually participate in. Now watch as this gets blown out of proportion, because this will make some people really, really angry. Id be very surprised if this stays up actually.

Given that the lead of the SQLite project's personal website has references to an organisation that translates religious Scripture, I'm not sure it really is a "joking stab".

> this will make some people really, really angry

Suggesting that a text written by Christians is a good basis for an OSS project's CoC, when Christianity has a pretty fucking horrific track record when it comes to most of the people who, without Codes of Conduct are pushed out of or never welcome in OSS projects, and you're surprised that people might be angry?

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