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Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

economist.com

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Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#111

Post by toast0 »

lmm wrote: post #13
my_username_is_ wrote: post #10

Very interesting--I had never heard of this before. It seems the higher interest rate is predicated on finding investors who want to take loans at higher-than-market-clearing rates. Does anyone have any insight into why non-Muslims are getting loans through these banks? I don't see how this scales to consistently provide higher returns, especially as more money moves into this system. Are tobacco and alcohol related…

I would expect a sharia bank to provide market-beating returns to investors because it can charge above-market mortgage rates to borrowers who have no alternative. From the article: > Al Rayan’s home purchase plan (its sharia-compliant version of a mortgage) charges 4.24% in the first two years, almost double the market average. Even so, 12% of Al Rayan’s home-purchase customers are non-Muslims. I'm as stumped as you…

Paying a little more makes sense for religious or preference reasons , but paying twice the rate (when it's significant) doesn't make a lot of sense for a preference. It seems likely that there is something wrong with the comparison , either the effective rate is computed incorrectly, or there's a significsnt difference in terms or underwriting.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#112

Post by jimison »

otras wrote: post #102
stealthcat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even as a muslim myself, I feel like sharia finance is a step backwards. Are you an actual muslim or just by name. Don't invalidate your eemaan by saying Islam is inferior to man-made system. Even if you don't like the mufti and scholars, they've done the ijtihad based on the Quran and Sunnah for the best of muslims, and they are the responsible ones, not you. I don't know your intent but, Be EXTRA careful with your…

I’m not a Muslim, and this comment is very interesting. Do you mind explaining what you mean?

OP (Mengkudulangsat ) expressed problems with sharia finance in terms of investing fundamentals (risk, complexity, etc.).

stealthcat objected to OP raising these points and appealed to authority (variously, Islamic leaders/theologians, foundational religious texts, and God). stealthcat questioned OP's intentions and religious commitment, implying he might not be a Real Muslim(TM) and exhorting him to defend orthodox teachings.

To stealthcat, I would challenge him to consider that many religions are plagued by convoluted rules, to which people come up with hokey workarounds. Orthodox Jews have sabbat elevators; Amish use pay telephones; Sikhs have kirpans (knives) that are impossible to unholster. projectramo's comment about sharia finance obfuscating the principle of interest seems very on-point here.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#113

Post by dang »

peapicker wrote: post #2

Very interesting but need a non-paywalled source.

If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post workarounds in the thread.

This is in the FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more explanation here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#114

Post by dang »

simplysimple wrote: post #39

If you think they aren't funding terrorism through these banks, I've got a bridge to sell you.

That's flamebait, which the site guidelines ask you not to post. More generally, could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? We're trying for better than that here, so eventually ban accounts that do it.

On HN the idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#115

Post by gadders »

mkaziz wrote: post #91
gadders wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers. I think some people (not massive numbers, admittedly) avoid Halal restaurants/meat because the method of slaughter is less humane and doesn't typically involve stunning the animal first.

From my understanding, stunning is still done in the West for producing halal meat- you just have to be careful not to kill the animal, so usually lower-level shocks are used.

It looks like it varies between low voltage stunning and no stunning at all: http://www.theweek.co.uk/58447/halal-meat-what-does-it-invol...

Mind you, kosher slaughter is no better.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#116

Post by dang »

ElBarto wrote: post #77
mmjaa wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite content with investing in the Middle East and Pakistan over the 'tobacco guys'. One group has been responsible for wilfully murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including children, for decades. The other group is just likely to follow a religion I'm not a member of ..

Saudi Arabia is a peace-loving country that wouldn't harm a fly.

You've taken this thread not only off topic, but into national and religious flamewar. That's exactly what we don't want here, and we ban accounts that do it, so please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#117

Post by programmarchy »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #99
ru999gol wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems if you save money at the bank they will actually loose money for you since their interest rate is lower than inflation. The financial market is such a clusterfuck lmao

That’s kind of the point of low interest rates isn’t it? The idea is that this encourages money to move around the economy instead of sitting there accumulating interest.

But with fractional reserve banking, money isn’t just “sitting there” — most of it is being lent out to someone else by the bank.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#118

Post by otras »

jimison wrote: post #112
otras wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not a Muslim, and this comment is very interesting. Do you mind explaining what you mean?

OP (Mengkudulangsat ) expressed problems with sharia finance in terms of investing fundamentals (risk, complexity, etc.). stealthcat objected to OP raising these points and appealed to authority (variously, Islamic leaders/theologians, foundational religious texts, and God). stealthcat questioned OP's intentions and religious commitment, implying he might not be a Real Muslim(TM) and exhorting him to defend orthodox…

Fantastic, thank you for for the explanation.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#120

Post by hjek »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #51
hjek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in UK, I'm a fan of halal chippies as they always use vegetable oil instead of beef dripping for their chips and patties.

Interesting. Why? Halal definitely allows beef to be combined with potatoes.

This muslim chippy owner just told me that halal chippies never use beef dripping, when I asked about what oil they were using.

But as you say, it may not be because beef dripping as such is haram, but rather that the beef dripping that is available and used at traditional English chippies is not.

Honestly, I don't know why. I still look out for the halal sign on chippies, but I've also become better at telling just by the smell.

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