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Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

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Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#41
post #37

Lovely design. I feel this could provide value for a lot of indie developers. However, the copy could use some work.. For example, the following tag line could be much more concise.. "The instant solution to worrying less about your work being copied by the clients you developed them for."

Interesting (and comforting) to see the different points of views, where some would target indie developers (just as I did) and others would target massive enterprises. Good to see this isn't a black and white kind of problem.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#42

If it has 0 users, who did you make it for?

It was something I built for myself in the first place (and I do still actively use it). Showed it to one of my dev-friends, he said it looked cool so I thought: "why not work a little bit more on it and share it with the world?".

I'd say that was the right thought process. Whether it works or not, most money making side projects start this way.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#43
If you built out a project to the level of maturity I'm seeing, with 0 customers, you absolutely are doing it wrong.

I've had a couple of market successes, mostly in the B2B2C/LeadGen space and every time it has been built with a primary customer who is basically getting the product at reduced cost with the caveat that I understand the business impact I'm making with my software to be able to derive true value. They have the benefit of the product growing up around their needs before their competitors get their hands on it.

You built a solution to a problem without an anchor customer using it from prototype stage on up. This is really risky, in that you don't have a solid insight into the intrinsic business value of your product.

It seems too that you didn't take distribution into account and assumed that word of mouth would carry your cost of acquisition. For me the formula would be something roughly like:

Estimated LifeTimeValue (LTV) over 1 year * .3 == Avail Cost Per Aquisition in Marketing / Bizdev / TradeBooth / Etc.

(this formula will create an initial deficit, but most products are fighting against media buys of entrenched companies so you have to expect this)

So if you make $300/yr per customer, you might expect to spend $120 in marketing expenses to acquire a single customer. If you have a 10% signup rate for a free trial, with a 15% stick rate from that (For every 100 people you buy targeted media on, you might expect 1.5 paying customers)... that means if you're spending $1/CPC on google, you would be spending $75 per new customer (beating your $150 budget). Organic reach and word of mouth might help this formula reduce in cost, but what you're wanting to build is a sustainable machine that can be driven by marketing expense, not by gimmicky front-page listings on HN You optimize on those metrics as your marketing continues to spend more and you have more data to work with.

Obviously, the above example is hyper-simplistic, but you have an advantage of not needing to hire devs. Now take the time to figure out the digital marketing piece or find a partner who knows it and can help you with it in exchange for equity if you're trying to bootstrap this.

You'd have to play with your pricing structure to make that work, as you increase your price, Cost Per Aquisition possibly goes up but you hopefully can find a balance that works in your market. This is why most people for their first product need investors to pony up spends to discover this, but in my experience, you can hit very low cost-per-acquisition numbers if you're careful, just not at scale. (Last part is important)

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions or want any advice, you're getting a LOT of great input from people here but this is my $.02 :)

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#44
So, this is a perfectly good product, and your pricing isn’t bad, but I’d have gone for a bigger spread - make the basic tier free, make the top tier $499 or so.

I’d also consider what would drive agencies and freelancers to do this, and market accordingly. This is one of those where many (i.e. those who’ve never experienced an infringement) would regard as an unnecessary cost.

Set up saved searches on twitter for “my work got ripped off!” type posts and reach out with “that sucks, I’m sorry that happened - I have a product that might help next time”. Optimise SEO for terms like “website was copied” and “how can a freelancer enforce IP right?”. Those who have just been stung will buy this in a heartbeat, and a free tier would capture a large and vocal market. Most B2B purchases come from distress.

Finally, consider reworking your copy. It’s too much steak, not enough sizzle (you talk a lot about features and the tech, but not enough about how much better (trouble free, worry-free, easy, relax, no stress, get paid, boost revenue through easy licensing) it’ll make their lives).

Also,

“In a very bad scenario where our service is slow, the worst thing that happens is a user being able to use the web app for a couple of seconds before it is denied access.”

What? I think I know what you mean, but that reads like “if our servers are down, you will be too”.

Finally finally, consider a positive sell too - “license your work with ease, monitor subscriptions”, rather than the purely negative (protect yourself against infringers!) you have currently.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#45
I think the market is simply not there for such a tool. Your target audience are freelance web developers or rather a small subset of these. Add to that, that many of them are code monkeys that prefer to cook up something like this on their own and secondly the average freelance web developer doesn't really have terribly much money to spend to begin with.

I think you need a product that you can license to enterprise customers because they have plenty of money and often don't have a clue whether your product really is worth all the money or not.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think generally calling it “failure” is fair. I think you could call it “marketing failure”.

At what point does it become a failure, if 0 users after 4 months of effort is NOT a failure? Coddling people, especially in business, is very counterproductive. People could waste years of their lives following bad paths because of bad advice like yours. Not a single person has decided that the product is worth paying money for. If the purpose of the effort was to get some people to pay money for this, and the outco…

Yes, but how would one feel if one had to admit failure. We must put feelings before data! /s

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#47
I see a few issues here.

1. $10 for GET request and ten license-domain pairs. For one project. $50 for ten projects and 100 licenses per project. Too pricey for small amount.

2. Nothing stops user from simply removing qeys.js from a page.

3. Functions in your js file are called "v" for validation, "iv" for invalid license error and "vv" for setting validation cookie. They can conflict with other similarly name functions from other parts of your customers's JS.

4. You set validation cookies on the client side. You literally have a code to bypass your system in your system.

5. User interface may be much better. There's too much hassle in setting up multiple keys. I need to switch between pages to do it.

Conclusion: your software isn't good, your prices are high. Something like that can be accomplished in one day with a couple PHP scripts tied to MySQL database with lifetime control over it. Everybody who needs it most likely are able to implement it themselves. You need to put more effort in it and polish it more to make it really attractive for others. It's a nice job for "Intro to Webdev" course project, but not for actual product someone will pay for. I don't want to offend you, but that's what I actually think as a guy with some teaching experience.

Shameless plug: I can develop similar (or better) webapps and now looking for projects. You can hire me. You may find me in Telegram with the same username I use on HN.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#48

So, this is a perfectly good product, and your pricing isn’t bad, but I’d have gone for a bigger spread - make the basic tier free, make the top tier $499 or so. I’d also consider what would drive agencies and freelancers to do this, and market accordingly. This is one of those where many (i.e. those who’ve never experienced an infringement) would regard as an unnecessary cost. Set up saved searches on twitter for “m…

“if our servers are down, you will be too”: I can definitely see how you interpreted that. Luckily that's not the case, though. If our servers are down, all license validation passes. The "very bad scenario" with slow service is in the case of a invalid copy which may need a couple of seconds before it is detected as invalid. I am definitely going to change the copy, seems a lot of work to be done there.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#49
post #47

I see a few issues here. 1. $10 for GET request and ten license-domain pairs. For one project. $50 for ten projects and 100 licenses per project. Too pricey for small amount. 2. Nothing stops user from simply removing qeys.js from a page. 3. Functions in your js file are called "v" for validation, "iv" for invalid license error and "vv" for setting validation cookie. They can conflict with other similarly name functi…

Wow, no offence taken. Thanks for having a look.

Re: Ask HN: 4 months after posting my project on HN, it has 0 users. Has it failed?

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At what point does it become a failure, if 0 users after 4 months of effort is NOT a failure? Coddling people, especially in business, is very counterproductive. People could waste years of their lives following bad paths because of bad advice like yours. Not a single person has decided that the product is worth paying money for. If the purpose of the effort was to get some people to pay money for this, and the outco…

Yes, but how would one feel if one had to admit failure. We must put feelings before data! /s

Or maybe, it makes sense to identify why something failed and label it as such.
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