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What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

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Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#71
post #5

When I wrote my bachelor thesis about democratic methods in online communities, I found out that all these crowd-sourced sites had one major problem. When they start, senior players in their field of work laugh at them because they don't have much content. So they try to get as much as possible, trying to get as many new creators on board as they can. Later, when they have grown enough, the senior players in the fiel…

What you are talking about is more a problem for a site like Wikipedia which ends up being quality limited because the quality of its users. Stack Overflow is more about finding a needle in the haystack. Which is a scenario less susceptible to those problems since it generally requires experience, rather than expertise, and can be validated by the people involved. Which is also why it would be counterproductive for SO to not manage the size of the haystack.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#72

One challenge not discussed here is when an accepted and highly voted answer _used_ to be a good answer, but no longer is in later versions of whatever software/platform/library is discussed. This is also something that gets worse over time, like the uniqueness problem. I think it's worse than the uniqueness problem, multiple duplicate _good_ questions/answers don't actually harm, misguide, or delay anyone looking fo…

Yeah this is becoming a real problem. I lookup an error and find the solution solved with an older version of the framework.

If I'm lucky someone left a comment regarding the version I'm on, but not often.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#73

One challenge not discussed here is when an accepted and highly voted answer _used_ to be a good answer, but no longer is in later versions of whatever software/platform/library is discussed. This is also something that gets worse over time, like the uniqueness problem. I think it's worse than the uniqueness problem, multiple duplicate _good_ questions/answers don't actually harm, misguide, or delay anyone looking fo…

Remove the entire concept of "accepted" answers and let votes decay or be withdrawn, along with scoring the rankings using time as an additional input. Quora has recently introduced secondary voting mechanisms where answers will randomly have a "is it still relevant" toggle for users to continue providing signal beyond the initial vote.

I think its harder than that. Some anwers are just timeless. Others should decay.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#74

One challenge not discussed here is when an accepted and highly voted answer _used_ to be a good answer, but no longer is in later versions of whatever software/platform/library is discussed. This is also something that gets worse over time, like the uniqueness problem. I think it's worse than the uniqueness problem, multiple duplicate _good_ questions/answers don't actually harm, misguide, or delay anyone looking fo…

Remove the entire concept of "accepted" answers and let votes decay or be withdrawn, along with scoring the rankings using time as an additional input. Quora has recently introduced secondary voting mechanisms where answers will randomly have a "is it still relevant" toggle for users to continue providing signal beyond the initial vote.

Instead of decay, you could just embrace the concept of vote inflation. If a site continues to get more popular the number of votes (in both directions) will grow in proportion to that. It is normally a problem, but in this case could be an asset.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#75
Wow, time flies (for both the age of SO and how long since Jeff was involved).

So I'm onboard with the concept of SO as Wikipedia. Fine. Weirdly I see no mention of some of the bigger problems (as I see them). And what's weird about these problems is they were completely foreseeable by anyone who paid the tiniest bit of attention to Wikipedia.

1. TMS (Toxic Moderator Syndrome). You have askers, answerers and moderators. All have their purpose but they are not equal.

- People who ask questions mainly derive value from SO by getting answers to their problems and this is how it should be (and the karma system reflects this).

- People who answer questions. This is where most of the value is derived from.

- Moderators. While cleaning up the site has value it should be recognized that this is a utility function. The karma system reflects this but any system like this seems to attract a certain kind of personality who embodies the principle that "those who can, do; those who can't, moderate".

Look at any highly ranked answer (or question) and you'll see a litany of questionable edits (which eventually rob the answerer of any karma when that question or answer gets 30+ edits and goes "community"). I don't have a problem with this kind of pedantry.

What I do have a problem with is closing of using questions because of a culture that has decided completely on its own what qualifies as acceptable content for the site. Anyone who has used SO more than a few times will have come across useful questions that don't have mathematically provable correct answers and are closed as off-topic.

It's like the SO mods feared flamewars that never happened and in the process created an equally bad (if not worse) situation.

2. Accepted answers that are wrong (or were right but are now wrong). Why can't these be edited?

3. What to do with all that VC money. This never made sense to me but this was in the era where some (VCs mainly it seems) thought that Q&A sites like Quora were going to be the next unicorns (I never did and still don't).

This has led to side businesses like SO recruiting, which I never thought was going to go anywhere because if you say contributions to the site were a useful signal in hiring (which I'll accept as valid), last I looked at this (a few years ago) only some ~25,000 with non-trivial amounts of karma. That's not a sufficient market and pales in comparison to, say, Github repos as a signal.

4. How to handle stale information. I still see no solution to this.

I really do wonder what went into Jeff bailing 2 years in (assuming he wasn't pushed out). Joel still seems to be plugging away, which is a bit weird given he's done much better out of, say, Trello.

There's honestly nothing magic about SO. It's just fairly simple software with a clean UI that came about at a time where the alternative was the giant trash heap that was and is EE. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely useful.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#76

One challenge not discussed here is when an accepted and highly voted answer _used_ to be a good answer, but no longer is in later versions of whatever software/platform/library is discussed. This is also something that gets worse over time, like the uniqueness problem. I think it's worse than the uniqueness problem, multiple duplicate _good_ questions/answers don't actually harm, misguide, or delay anyone looking fo…

Remove the entire concept of "accepted" answers and let votes decay or be withdrawn, along with scoring the rankings using time as an additional input. Quora has recently introduced secondary voting mechanisms where answers will randomly have a "is it still relevant" toggle for users to continue providing signal beyond the initial vote.

No. Instead make the “Accepted” moniker have people do “Seconded” for whatever latest version it still works for.

And then the newest users can come and see based on the LATEST version which is the most upvoted answer.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#77

One challenge not discussed here is when an accepted and highly voted answer _used_ to be a good answer, but no longer is in later versions of whatever software/platform/library is discussed. This is also something that gets worse over time, like the uniqueness problem. I think it's worse than the uniqueness problem, multiple duplicate _good_ questions/answers don't actually harm, misguide, or delay anyone looking fo…

Recently I have really started noticing this exact problem. Every answer (usually from closer to 2010) I have looked at is recommending using jQuery, even though there are perfectly fine ways of doing it without jQuery in 2018. I've taken to looking the dates of answers and ignoring any that date from more than 2-3 years in the past.

If you still support IE11 very little has changed in the last 2-3 years. JQuery is still king. Companies that support large enterprise or government absolutely require IE11 support, since these places are required to use it due to exclusive e.g. Java Applets/Flash/ActiveX, etc.

Microsoft's decision to drop those technologies from Edge was kind a mixed bag. From a security perspective it was the right decision. But it has also stuck many of us developing for a non-evergreen browser, even while our users are on Windows 10.

IE11 is the new IE6.

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#78
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Being a community manager is a thankless, unrelenting assault on your confidence and emotional and social stability." Oh man I volunteered to moderate on a large gaming related forum ages ago. The amount of BS you deal with along with personal attacks and etc is pretty high. I never felt emotionally upset by it as I felt you had to maintain an even keel .... but it certainly is not a job for everyone and the rub is…

My favorite moments from moderating a small , semi-private video-game related board: - an administrator completely shutting the board down overnight because of a romantic encounter that went down poorly. - a prolific troll - who finally finally got enough of his accounts, sub-accounts, and sock puppet accounts banned that he effectively lost access to the site - texting me late at night demanding an explanation for w…

The last anecdote reminds me of a similar hilarious story that evolved in a corner of the Douglas Adams universe: http://www.nickbaily.com/?p=13

Edit: Actually this link probably makes more sense: https://kotaku.com/the-secret-douglas-adams-rpg-people-have-...

Re: What does Stack Overflow want to be when it grows up?

#79

I’m gonna catch some flak for this... Listening to Jeff try to describe what stack overflow is and the “fundamental misunderstanding” by all of us millions of unwashed masses is amazing. It’s also a bit like listening to a muskox describe why it decided to grow long hair after so much time in the snow; IOW, a complete and total lack of understanding of emergence and a rewriting of history at the behest of Jeff’s enor…

Before StackOverflow, this was Q&A for programmers:

https://xkcd.com/979/

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