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Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

economist.com

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Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#71

Post by tareqak »

ElBarto wrote: post #53
mmjaa wrote: post #19

This is great. I'm not a Muslim, but learning that there are banks that don't invest in arms and tobacco - this is great news, and I guess I'll take a closer look at halal banking soon. For too long I've been bothered by the fact that I don't have much say in where my funds are invested by the 'normal banks' - the fact that there is an option for those of us who don't want to participate in the military-industrial-ph…

They don't invest in arms and tobacco. But where do you think all those extremist muslim organisations get their money from? You're trading the tobacco industry for the guys in the middle east and Pakistan...

These banks are UK banks that required by UK banking laws to know their customers (KYC [0]) and follow all applicable anti-money laundering laws. Every journalist in every news organization, mainstream or alternative, would love to break that sort of news if it were true.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#72

Post by ioewjfowe »

n4r9 wrote: post #62
tareqak wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some actual growth numbers and customer numbers would have been nice, but I don't see The Economist overselling the popularity at all; instead, I just see them saying that it is growing (based on my reading of the first paragraph). Edit: fix typo

I agree, actual figures would help a lot. The cynic in me suspects their absence is because they don't support the hypothesis. The claim that halal restaurants have an "almost religious following" among non-Muslims raises my eyebrows almost as much as the claims that e.g. there are "no-go areas" in Muslim parts of Birmingham. I've lived in various parts of the UK all my life, I've been involved in Muslim communities…

> It might be the case that e.g. Lebanese or Indian cuisine is popular among non-Muslim Brits

Umm.. Majority of indians are hindus not muslims.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#73

Post by PhasmaFelis »

ElBarto wrote: post #55
tgb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster is probably referring to their avoidance of sin investments like arms and tobacco.

That's fine if you're willing to ignore the world of the middle East. The news recently should make clear how more ethical than the tobacco industry it is... not.

You're assuming that every Muslim endorses every Middle Eastern government, then?

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#74

Post by mmjaa »

ElBarto wrote: post #53
mmjaa wrote: post #19

This is great. I'm not a Muslim, but learning that there are banks that don't invest in arms and tobacco - this is great news, and I guess I'll take a closer look at halal banking soon. For too long I've been bothered by the fact that I don't have much say in where my funds are invested by the 'normal banks' - the fact that there is an option for those of us who don't want to participate in the military-industrial-ph…

They don't invest in arms and tobacco. But where do you think all those extremist muslim organisations get their money from? You're trading the tobacco industry for the guys in the middle east and Pakistan...

I'm quite content with investing in the Middle East and Pakistan over the 'tobacco guys'. One group has been responsible for wilfully murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including children, for decades. The other group is just likely to follow a religion I'm not a member of ..

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#75

Post by ru999gol »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #36

The fact that central banks have set the interest rate near zero already must play a role.

It seems if you save money at the bank they will actually loose money for you since their interest rate is lower than inflation. The financial market is such a clusterfuck lmao

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#76

Post by ElBarto »

tareqak wrote: post #71
ElBarto wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't invest in arms and tobacco. But where do you think all those extremist muslim organisations get their money from? You're trading the tobacco industry for the guys in the middle east and Pakistan...

These banks are UK banks that required by UK banking laws to know their customers (KYC [0]) and follow all applicable anti-money laundering laws. Every journalist in every news organization, mainstream or alternative, would love to break that sort of news if it were true. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer

Most of them, if not all, have links with the middle East or other muslim countries. Either they are subsidiaries of middle eastern banks, or were funded by middle eastern investors.

As a Westerner and an atheist, ethics to me is staying far away from these organisations.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#77

Post by ElBarto »

mmjaa wrote: post #74
ElBarto wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't invest in arms and tobacco. But where do you think all those extremist muslim organisations get their money from? You're trading the tobacco industry for the guys in the middle east and Pakistan...

I'm quite content with investing in the Middle East and Pakistan over the 'tobacco guys'. One group has been responsible for wilfully murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including children, for decades. The other group is just likely to follow a religion I'm not a member of ..

Saudi Arabia is a peace-loving country that wouldn't harm a fly.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#78

Post by vectorEQ »

n4r9 wrote: post #32

I like the idea of more ethical banks, but I think the article is overselling the popularity of Islamic institutions in the UK. I live in London and whilst I'm aware that Sharia banking exists as a concept, I've never heard of BLME. Also the opening sentence comes off as slightly absurd: >THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers…

sharia /ʃəˈriːə/Submit noun Islamic canonical law based on the teachings of the Koran and the traditions of the Prophet (Hadith and Sunna), prescribing both religious and secular duties and sometimes retributive penalties for lawbreaking. It has generally been supplemented by legislation adapted to the conditions of the day, though the manner in which it should be applied in modern states is a subject of dispute between Muslim traditionalists and reformists.

- more ethical? or just different cultural values? i won't get all excited just because they claim not to invest in guns etc, - sharia law doesnt allow women to go to school or drive a car... do you think this banks maybe also enforce such laws in their banking ideology? ....

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#79

Post by dsfyu404ed »

ioewjfowe wrote: post #72
n4r9 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, actual figures would help a lot. The cynic in me suspects their absence is because they don't support the hypothesis. The claim that halal restaurants have an "almost religious following" among non-Muslims raises my eyebrows almost as much as the claims that e.g. there are "no-go areas" in Muslim parts of Birmingham. I've lived in various parts of the UK all my life, I've been involved in Muslim communities…

> It might be the case that e.g. Lebanese or Indian cuisine is popular among non-Muslim Brits Umm.. Majority of indians are hindus not muslims.

I think the point was that it's "ethnic food from somewhere in southern Asia that's further west than Myanmar or so" not that it conforms to any particular religious requirement.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#80

Post by mbostleman »

n4r9 wrote: post #32

I like the idea of more ethical banks, but I think the article is overselling the popularity of Islamic institutions in the UK. I live in London and whilst I'm aware that Sharia banking exists as a concept, I've never heard of BLME. Also the opening sentence comes off as slightly absurd: >THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers…

I don't see anything more or less ethical here. The bank has to get a return. Whether it does so through interest or a "share of the profit" is more a matter of risk and transaction cost. It's hard for me to believe that what it costs to maintain a knowledge of a borrower's profit and then collect from that is really competitive.
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