Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 163 posts

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#51

Post by jkaplowitz »

hjek wrote: post #38
n4r9 wrote: post #32

I like the idea of more ethical banks, but I think the article is overselling the popularity of Islamic institutions in the UK. I live in London and whilst I'm aware that Sharia banking exists as a concept, I've never heard of BLME. Also the opening sentence comes off as slightly absurd: >THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers…

Here in UK, I'm a fan of halal chippies as they always use vegetable oil instead of beef dripping for their chips and patties.

Interesting. Why? Halal definitely allows beef to be combined with potatoes.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#52

Post by tareqak »

ElBarto wrote: post #49
n4r9 wrote: post #32

I like the idea of more ethical banks, but I think the article is overselling the popularity of Islamic institutions in the UK. I live in London and whilst I'm aware that Sharia banking exists as a concept, I've never heard of BLME. Also the opening sentence comes off as slightly absurd: >THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers…

So-called 'sharia finance' isn't more ethical, not that there anything unethical with charging interests. What they do is a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid calling what you pay for a loan 'interest'.

That's the argument of Tarek El Diwany. From the second last paragraph of the article:

Some purists dislike the way modern sharia finance is run. Tarek El Diwany, a consultant, says banks are devising loopholes to sell nominally sharia-compliant products that are essentially the same as any other. For 1,400 years Islamic finance has been based on mutual ownership and profit-sharing, he says. But most sharia deposits return a specified rate similar to interest, not a share of actual profits earned. He describes it as “blank-faced copy-catting”.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#53

Post by ElBarto »

mmjaa wrote: post #19

This is great. I'm not a Muslim, but learning that there are banks that don't invest in arms and tobacco - this is great news, and I guess I'll take a closer look at halal banking soon. For too long I've been bothered by the fact that I don't have much say in where my funds are invested by the 'normal banks' - the fact that there is an option for those of us who don't want to participate in the military-industrial-ph…

They don't invest in arms and tobacco. But where do you think all those extremist muslim organisations get their money from?

You're trading the tobacco industry for the guys in the middle east and Pakistan...

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#54

Post by tgb »

ElBarto wrote: post #49
n4r9 wrote: post #32

I like the idea of more ethical banks, but I think the article is overselling the popularity of Islamic institutions in the UK. I live in London and whilst I'm aware that Sharia banking exists as a concept, I've never heard of BLME. Also the opening sentence comes off as slightly absurd: >THE HALAL restaurants established by Muslim migrants in Britain quickly inspired an almost religious following among non-believers…

So-called 'sharia finance' isn't more ethical, not that there anything unethical with charging interests. What they do is a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid calling what you pay for a loan 'interest'.

The poster is probably referring to their avoidance of sin investments like arms and tobacco.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#55

Post by ElBarto »

tgb wrote: post #54
ElBarto wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So-called 'sharia finance' isn't more ethical, not that there anything unethical with charging interests. What they do is a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid calling what you pay for a loan 'interest'.

The poster is probably referring to their avoidance of sin investments like arms and tobacco.

That's fine if you're willing to ignore the world of the middle East.

The news recently should make clear how more ethical than the tobacco industry it is... not.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#56

Post by akerl_ »

nextweek2 wrote: post #50

The title and article are using reglion as a context when it's not. As a consumer I am not converting to Sharia finance, I have just found a product which meets my requirements. The index fund I am invested in turns out to be mainly high tech stocks with a low fee, just because it has 'Islamic' in the fund name doesn't mean I'm a convert to the religious philosophy.

Would you still be concerned if the title said "Why non-Muslims are converting to financial institutions which abide by sharia law"?

They're a publication; the job of all headline is to convince people to read articles, and on the "clickbait" scale, this seems to be pretty solidly "not clickbait".

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#57

Post by tareqak »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #51
hjek wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in UK, I'm a fan of halal chippies as they always use vegetable oil instead of beef dripping for their chips and patties.

Interesting. Why? Halal definitely allows beef to be combined with potatoes.

The beef has to be halal beef. In this context of using beef fat as an additive to other food, the beef fat has to be halal as well.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#59

Post by hevi_jos »

In Spain the Catholic Church created a series of banks for lending to poor people, and investing profit in social causes. I think the concept came from Italy.

Those banks were called "Cajas de ahorros". Most people had their money there instead of private Banks.

The concept worked very well for something like 200 years. Until politicians changed the law to control the Cajas themselves.

After politicians took control,they did things like private lending at 0 interest to their friends and party(they even lent to one of the biggest party 50 Million euro and then totally forgave the debt!!) or putting their almost illiterate friends as counselors.

It took only 15 years after that to totally bankrupt all cajas in Spain, and now they are owned by private banks.

Re: Why non-Muslims are converting to sharia finance

#60

Post by titanix2 »

keiferski wrote: post #31
titanix2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sharia forbids investments in sin stocks like arms, alcohol and tobacco." This very neutral way of writing is telling.

“Sin stock” is a commonly-used phrase in finance and does not imply an ethical opinion on the topic by the user of the term, merely that ethical opinions are often held on the topic by the public/investors at large. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sinfulstock.asp

Today I learned. I'm still sure it is written as a double entendre just like the last sentence of the article.
Post reply on HN