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Who Are My Investors?

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Re: Who Are My Investors?

#31

Post by _bfhp »

The intent is good but I feel this is a pretty futile angle. On an aggregate scale if you don't take authoritarian money, your competitor will and then they will have more money than you.

Luckily these days we have a system of checks and balances on authoritarian entities throwing around huge amounts of money to get what they want; it's called democratic government. These days you can help democracy in your own country by working directly on campaign finance reform and voter's rights in your local communities and greater state and federal campaigns. So the people in your government aren't mostly millionaires. That helps. But I've seen first-hand working on these issues that they come off as unsexy and grindy to many.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#32

Post by wslh »

cm2012 wrote: post #28
mc32 wrote: post #26

The question posed by the CEO in question, while valid, is futile --verging on naive. To really mean it, you'll refuse: money, investment and goods from China, Russia, Gulf, many African countries, Latin America, etc. to such an extent so as to bring the world economy to a virtual standstill. In addition to refusing money also No Oil from Saudi, Venezuela, Russia, or Goods from China, Minerals from Africa... It's wel…

I'd say it depends how much you can separate the cash from the malicious governments. There are plenty of chinese investors only connected to the Party by one or two links. Not so in Russia or SA.

You can't if at the end your company is public or acquired by a public company.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#33

Post by loceng »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

At any business effort beyond hyper local markets, there is virtually no way to avoid tainted money or unethical markets. You're going to have to compromise somewhere. The question is, how and where do you draw the line? At some point as a founder/fundraiser, you will cross paths with finance or supply chains that support exploitation, coercion, violence or illegality. The most successful business people don't seem t…

In fact for the corrupt, it could even be viewed as a net positive to know you have bad actor money "on your team" - whom may directly or indirectly help your cause to get things in your favour.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#34

Post by maxwell »

mc32 wrote: post #26

The question posed by the CEO in question, while valid, is futile --verging on naive. To really mean it, you'll refuse: money, investment and goods from China, Russia, Gulf, many African countries, Latin America, etc. to such an extent so as to bring the world economy to a virtual standstill. In addition to refusing money also No Oil from Saudi, Venezuela, Russia, or Goods from China, Minerals from Africa... It's wel…

> The question posed by the CEO in question, while valid, is futile --verging on naive.

From the article:

> The CEO asked his VCs because questions were coming up internally and he wanted to answer honestly and accurately.

The question was imposed on the CEO by "naive" employees who will quit if the company took money from the Saudis.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#35

Post by flyinglizard »

This moral high ground is a very tricky thing. We need to accept different parts of the world operate differently and not to deny them from participating in technology. You could find something uneasy about anyone and anywhere. China, Israel, Gulf states, and of course USA itself.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#36

Post by mrleiter »

Ben Hunt pointedly said in his recent article [0]:

"With Saudi Arabia, the ubiquitous private information was that Saudi Arabia is a thug state and their Crown Prince MBS is a wannabe Bond villain. But no one acted AS IF they knew this until a Missionary event – in this case Turkey’s very public denunciations of the Saudi government’s murder of Jamal Khashoggi – turned that private information into common knowledge, something that now everyone knows that everyone knows."

He coined the term >common knowledge gameIn the case of MBS, or Saudi Arabia specifically, everybody (privately) already had the information that this is a brutal regime. But they acted as if no one knew this. Until the tragic and brutal death of an exiled journalist in a consulate and the public denunciation by Turkey. Now it has become common knowledge and actions must be taken accordingly.

[0] https://www.epsilontheory.com/saudi-arabia-and-the-common-kn...

[1] https://www.epsilontheory.com/sheep-logic/

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#38

Post by dcposch »

Pretty much every single comment so far is cynical. "No one really wants to know how the sausage is made", lots of money is tainted anyway, it's just PR fluff, etc etc. The classic HN Middlebrow Dismissal in full effect.

Counterpoint: cynicism is too easy. Actually giving a shit is harder, it's uncomfortable, it involves compromise.

Yes, if you refuse investment from any country that has ever violated a human right, you will raise $0. But that doesn't mean all money is created equal, or that Fred Wilson's effort here isnt worthwhile.

He's simply calling for VCs to a) refuse money from the worst offenders and b) be transparent about who their LPs are. He's also calling on startups, founders, engineers etc to demand this transparency, to care who they ultimately working for.

It's a simple ask.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#39

Post by barrkel »

One of the biggest upsides of capitalism, where upside is defined as increased economic activity, is that it hides morally dubious actions behind a simple monetary exchange.

You get to buy goods, and you only need to think about the price at checkout, whether virtual or physical. You don't need to think about how much human suffering or environmental degradation you're funding, where each sliver of profit goes, and what plans those people have for your money.

If you have to visit your butcher and look them in the eye to buy your meat, with sawdust underfoot to soak up any fluids from the carcasses still hanging, you might have a greater appreciation for the sacrifice of the animal. All nicely packaged up in plastic, in a standard unit, coming from a centralized slaughtering system, it's easier to forget that your clicks & coins fund killing. And that's just stuff we've largely morally made our peace with, at least until there's an equivalently tasty alternative.

A large part of government regulation is to add back more eyes into the system when your own eyes can't see beyond the immediate transaction and the supply chain leading to the transaction is too long for you to research, never mind perceive at the point of sale. Labour laws, food standards, inspections and regulations - far more oversight is made necessary due to capital's natural obfuscation.

Re: Who Are My Investors?

#40

Post by threatofrain »

loceng wrote: post #33
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

At any business effort beyond hyper local markets, there is virtually no way to avoid tainted money or unethical markets. You're going to have to compromise somewhere. The question is, how and where do you draw the line? At some point as a founder/fundraiser, you will cross paths with finance or supply chains that support exploitation, coercion, violence or illegality. The most successful business people don't seem t…

In fact for the corrupt, it could even be viewed as a net positive to know you have bad actor money "on your team" - whom may directly or indirectly help your cause to get things in your favour.

That's true for any "side", corrupt or non-corrupt -- you want more money because you trust your moral vision more.
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