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Time to End Factory Farming?

quillette.com

91–100 of 154 posts

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#91
post #77

It’s the convenience factor. That’s it. Once plant-based options are more convenient than meat, game over. Most people lack the discipline to sustain a vegan lifestyle, even in 2018.

It's also indoctrination. We've been indoctrinated to think of meat as a staple food. Meat was never a staple food before factory farming came along. Fortunately, it seems that humanity's honeymoon with the farming industry is coming to its end.

> indoctrinated to think of meat as a staple food

Generally agree, although I think this is slightly the wrong way 'round. Meat was definitely a luxury, as recently as a century ago. (Speaking of the U.S. here.) Then we had an explosion of a (relatively) wealthy middle-class, who could afford lots of things that were formerly luxuries. And those things became expected, they became part of the culture, and they became commodified. I don't think there's any nefarious conspiracy, it's classic tragedy of the commons: everybody individually wants steak for dinner; the social price doesn't become clear until much later.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#92
post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

Ok, so this article is not about going meat free. Just about factory farming. If you "crave meat" maybe you could consider non-factory farmed meat, for all the reasons mentioned.

Regarding your 3 points: 'Availability' is a problem with non-meat? I would think in most neighbourhoods that have a butcher, you should find a supermarket.

'Satiability', really? You don't feel full after baked potatos with sour cream? Mac and Cheese? A pizza quattro formaghi? Noodle soup? Indian curry? All of the above and an apple pie? You need that patty, right?

As a life-long meateater, I can very well understand your last point on taste. Hard to argue with taste. Since I don't want to miss it either, I will have meat from time to time as a special treat. Usually when eating out fancy. So about 1-2 times a month. Makes me looking forward to those dinners even more and I don't have to go the hardest 10% of the meat-free way.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#93
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumerism was always a lie. The idea of working more in order to earn more in order to buy more stuff to purportedly make us happier. Insofar as it did, it came with a terrible cost.

When exactly in human history did people live in an Utopia of happiness? Misery and suffering has always been prevalent for the majority of the human species.

But do you agree that it (a utopia of happiness) might be something worth striving for?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#94
post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

I feel that you don't want to change your mind anyway, and are happy to show us how smart you are by purposefully doing the opposite of what people hope to get you do after reading the article. To me, your comment reads as someone saying that reading an article about lung cancer didn't deter them from smoking and actually reminded them to go and buy a pack of smokes. Or how an article about global warming reminded th…

You're reading me a bit wrong, though maybe the last sentence was me being an asshole while also failing to explicitly point out what's wrong with their approach. You're correct that I don't feel like changing my mind but that's because their argument is old and I know that I enjoy meat. The objective was to point out that instead of trying to make meat eaters feel bad they should just make it easier for us to make better food choices. Food that we don't have to explicitly search for.

I'm not going to pick a food because it has a label for "vegetarian" or "vegan". I don't care. I pick what tastes good and is mostly healthy. Many other people have that line of thought besides me. Those kinds of people won't be attracted by those two terms and the moral implications behind them alone. If the food was good enough and marketed enough you wouldn't even need mostly useless articles like this.

That was what I was trying to point out. Hopefully you understand now.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#95
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be a few farms in your state that can do deliveries within the state. It's a bit harder when trying to deliver across state lines as the regulations are much higher. As for eating out, the best you could do is ask or just avoid it (meat) all together (including fish) when eating.

Of course, there are environmental reasons to avoid (some, most?) fish, but I consider wild-caught fish (and all wild/hunted game) fairly neutral from an animal welfare perspective. Perhaps this is a bit naive.

My stance on fish consumption has to do with lack of global regulation. If the place you're eating from a local, wild caught source that doesn't have byproduct waste (also a huge problem) go for it.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#96
post #31

The author has two articles, one is this one and the other makes a case for veganism. I understand that killing animals for their meat strikes some people as morally wrong but you're not going to change my mind by making me feel bad about how a cow, pig or chicken is raised and killed. This is not a moral problem for most people. We don't really care enough. We eat them because they taste good, are easily available a…

Eating meat is killing your health, your body imagine, your productivity. It’s killing YOU.

Meat consumption is the reason heart disease is our number one killer.

Will that convince you? Eating a plant-based diet is simply logic: for your health, for the environment, for ethics, for the health of society, etc, etc.

Read How Not To Die by Michael Gregor. Read Pubmed. Get educated on what meat is doing to your body.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#97
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this: If you don't eat meat because of ethical & environmental reasons, but still consume fish I ask you to take a good long look into the impact we've had on global fisheries.

In terms of environmental sustainability, chicken is the best value of any meat. It's about as an efficient feed:meat ratio as you can get, their waste is reusable, and they're certainly not going extinct. The moral problem, though, is it takes more chicken deaths to get an equal amount of meat as almost any other farm animal. One cow gives you as much meat as a few hundred chickens, so you're killing hundreds more c…

> Justifying regular animal consumption in any environmental or ethical sense is pretty much impossible

My issue is most people overlook the impact we've had on fisheries. It's much harder for fish populations to get back to where they need to be without massive regulation. Which is extremely hard on a global scale considering the economical impact it can have on some areas. The PBS documentary "Fish on my Plate" (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/the-fish-on-my-plate...) goes over this a bit in various ways, but one story they highlight is how Peru fixed their anchovy problem.

Never mind the issue of byproduct waste when it comes to line & trolling boats. Raising chickens & cows have an impact, but byproduct kill has an entire ecosystem impact.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#98
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it's illegal to film factory meat farms in some States in the USA should tell you a lot about just what is going on - and how horrible it must be. Sure, you want to eat steak, I get that. Go eat a steak. But lets at the very least treat the animals with respect and give them some semblance of a decent life and kill them quickly and humanely.

You want to treat something with respect and then kill it to eat it? What exactly is the point?

I may not agree with the concept of killing animals for food outside of survival necessity, but one must recognize that all life ends in death one way or another. Things do not have less value simply because they are impermanent. The quality of an animal's life is valuable regardless of how it ends, just as ours are.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#99
post #24

About three months ago I decided to stop purchasing factory-farmed meat. It's been pretty difficult for a few reasons. The biggest reason, by far, is access to information. Roughly, I would like to purchase only meat from animals that lived a "happy" life and had a relatively short death. Animals that lived outdoors, basically. But there are no credible labels or certifications for this, which means buying meat at th…

How would you respond to the author of the article who dismisses free-range meat as similar to being a good slaveowner or killing people painlessly in a genocide?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When exactly in human history did people live in an Utopia of happiness? Misery and suffering has always been prevalent for the majority of the human species.

But do you agree that it (a utopia of happiness) might be something worth striving for?

Sure, as worthy as striving to make water not be wet anymore.
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