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Time to End Factory Farming?

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Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#11

Post by newnewpdro »

latch wrote: post #8
newnewpdro wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? Are you implying all meat consumption equates cruelty to animals? Or are you referring specifically to consumption of meat produced cruelly, e.g. by factory farms?

I think your question is pretty theoretical, and the article explains why: the vast majority of animals are factory farmed. And, as far as I'm aware, it's impossible to satisfy current (and raising) demand any other way. I don't really know how to answer you. If all animals were free ranging and we only ate the ones that died of old age, we'd probably need so many more animals / land / energy to satisfy current deman…

What if I raise chickens, and occasionally I cut the head off one and cook it for dinner?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#12

Post by NeedMoreTea »

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

In the context of a mixed farm, or a smallholding or family keeping a few chickens for their eggs, it is perfectly possible, actually quite easy, to give an animal a happy, cruelty free life. Come the time it should be possible to give it a cruelty free death too, just as we do for pets.

If you want to operate a permaculture, which seems to be one of the most environmentally friendly and ethical ways of producing food, animals are often a part of that system, and sustainably too.

Factory farming and industrialised monoculture agriculture is another matter entirely that can't be legislated out of existence fast enough.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#13

Post by [deleted] »

newnewpdro wrote: post #11
latch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your question is pretty theoretical, and the article explains why: the vast majority of animals are factory farmed. And, as far as I'm aware, it's impossible to satisfy current (and raising) demand any other way. I don't really know how to answer you. If all animals were free ranging and we only ate the ones that died of old age, we'd probably need so many more animals / land / energy to satisfy current deman…

What if I raise chickens, and occasionally I cut the head off one and cook it for dinner?

[deleted]

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#14

Post by latch »

Rainymood wrote: post #6
latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

Because we have a biological need for meat. Meat tastes good because we need it to thrive (note, we can survive on a vegetarian diet but it is not optimal). >How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? How can you be against slave labor of children and still regularly wear clothing made in sweatshops? It's easy, it's a cost-benefit trade-off. It is simply too expensive. People understa…

I appreciate your reply. If I can paraphrase your first point, people eat meat because they enjoy it, and that's that.

I'm curious what your source is for saying a vegetarian diet isn't optimal. Most studies I've seen (including large and long studies) claim the opposite. Here's a list: [1]

I agree it's like sweatshops. I didn't want to draw the comparison to slavery because I think the ethical question stands on its own, but maybe you're right to point out that it's the same driving impulse.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian_nutrition#Health_ef...

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#15

Post by latch »

newnewpdro wrote: post #11
latch wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your question is pretty theoretical, and the article explains why: the vast majority of animals are factory farmed. And, as far as I'm aware, it's impossible to satisfy current (and raising) demand any other way. I don't really know how to answer you. If all animals were free ranging and we only ate the ones that died of old age, we'd probably need so many more animals / land / energy to satisfy current deman…

What if I raise chickens, and occasionally I cut the head off one and cook it for dinner?

I'm not sure I get your point. What does this have to do with 90 billion factory-farmed animals? (and I assume that doesn't include wild fishing).

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#16

Post by bspammer »

projektir wrote: post #3
latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

Consuming meat and factory farming are not directly related things. Meat can just as well be produced by better farming methods or processes like hunting. Doesn't mean that's how people end up getting their meet, but mostly people don't generate the chain of logistics they end up using, and it's not directly related to the product itself. This chain of thought also doesn't go anywhere, unless you want to end up a her…

While it's true that it's pretty much impossible to be completely ethical as a consumer, surely the meat industry (more specifically, factory farming) causes orders of magnitude more suffering than pretty much anything else.

Arguing that consumers aren't responsible for the method of production seems bizarre to me. Would you knowingly take cartel money as payment without any moral qualms?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#17

Post by newnewpdro »

latch wrote: post #15
newnewpdro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I raise chickens, and occasionally I cut the head off one and cook it for dinner?

I'm not sure I get your point. What does this have to do with 90 billion factory-farmed animals? (and I assume that doesn't include wild fishing).

You made a general statement about consuming meat being cruel, and I'm just trying to clarify if you're referring to the way the meat is produced or simply by virtue of eating another animal it's always cruel.

There are various ways to obtain meat for consumption, people hunt wild game, people raise livestock on their land, is this cruel according to you?

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#18

Post by FooHentai »

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

>How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat?

Immediacy is an interesting beast. I can see some lamb chops in the freezer and not really connect them to the fluffy bundle of cuteness gamboling across the pasture that I might see out on a walk that same day.

On the other hand, I'll tear up at the idea that anyone might ever, in even a minor capacity, be cruel to creatures that I hold close to my heart. I would straight up murder anyone that wished ill on my family, and all manner of beast falls under that umbrella.

I know, rationally, that this simply isn't consistent. But from the human perspective... I guess the distinctly human perspective, it's entirely ... not consistent... comfortable.

Work in progress, at least for me.

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#19

Post by [deleted] »

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

[deleted]

Re: Time to End Factory Farming?

#20

Post by voldacar »

latch wrote: post #2

How can you be against cruelty to animals and still regularly consume meat? This question I ask sincerely. There are other equally ethical considerations: global warming, land use, energy/water use, etc. I feel that any one of these should give most people pause.

It is disingenuous to assume that all meat is produced cruelly. I'm sure we share a dislike of factory farming, but just that the majority of meat is created via this method does not mean there aren't alternatives.
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