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So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

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Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#31

Post by newnewpdro »

rwmj wrote: post #24
newnewpdro wrote: post #5

Interesting writeup, but the Ghost Ship is an extreme example of what goes wrong - you couldn't make a place more of a fire hazard if you tried.

The Wikipedia page is informative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire As you say you could hardly make a more hazardous environment if you tried. Wooden pallets for stairs ?!

I'm sure you can find interior photos pre-fire. If I were on a high-speed link I'd find some to link here myself.

It was a grossly negligent situation. The whole place was brimming with wooden crap mixed with electrical junk for lights and sound. Words can't do justice to how much of a tinder box it was, the photos left me speechless when I investigated back on the day of the fire.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#32

Post by Asooka »

jakobegger wrote: post #27

All the successful small artist spaces that I know are different in two ways: - they are run by volunteers (no paid staff) - they have some sort of arrangement where they don't have to pay rent at market rate If you rent a space and hire someone to keep it open, you need a lot of money coming in...

Sounds like before you open an artist- (or hacker-) space, you should start a real estate business, preferably with other people who want to make small artist spaces.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#33

Post by CPLX »

This person created a startup business but kept their regular job and didn’t go to work there all day. That really almost never works, it doesn’t matter if it’s s booksstore or a car wash or a law firm. Bootstrapped new ventures are incredibly fragile, and generally need at least one passionate founder working on them full time.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#34

Post by underwater »

SyneRyder wrote: post #15
chrisseaton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

While I can't speak to Starbucks, a similar coffee chain in Australia is actually a property play. They don't just own their cafe, but also several of the adjacent stores as well, which they lease out to other retailers. Much of the value in the business actually comes from appreciation in property values.

Starbucks equivalent in Australia? The only company I can think of to fill that space would be Gloria Jeans, but they don’t have the same pull as Starbucks.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#35

Post by roel_v »

jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

* like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries*

Also, martial arts schools.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#36

Post by roel_v »

keiferski wrote: post #8

I’ve always thought that a remote tech job/lifestyle business is perfect for opening an art gallery / niche bookstore. You don’t need to worry about paying the bills, you have a private office / desk, and realistically you won’t get more than a few visitors per hour, so you can focus on work.

Let's say 'a few' is 3. How can you get any work done when you have to stop every 20 mins (one someone else's schedule) and spend 3 mins making coffee & small talk? This sounds like people saying 'I won't have to pay for child care because I can work from home'. Uh, what? Either you're doing 'child care' or you're 'working from home', but you can't do both (for children < 5), and anyone who says they can, obviously has never done it.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#37

Post by keiferski »

roel_v wrote: post #36
keiferski wrote: post #8

I’ve always thought that a remote tech job/lifestyle business is perfect for opening an art gallery / niche bookstore. You don’t need to worry about paying the bills, you have a private office / desk, and realistically you won’t get more than a few visitors per hour, so you can focus on work.

Let's say 'a few' is 3. How can you get any work done when you have to stop every 20 mins (one someone else's schedule) and spend 3 mins making coffee & small talk? This sounds like people saying 'I won't have to pay for child care because I can work from home'. Uh, what? Either you're doing 'child care' or you're 'working from home', but you can't do both (for children < 5), and anyone who says they can, obviously h…

Most smaller art galleries get 5 visitors a day, tops. That industry revolves around openings, events, and networking, not people walking in off the street.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#38

Post by usgroup »

l0b0 wrote: post #4

A recent experience from a hackerspace showed me how incredibly thankless people can be. After working really insanely hard to build an inclusive space with loads of features, every little hobby revolutionary in the community just shits all over the work and proclaims the people actually getting stuff done should just stop and leave it to them. Even if I had the time, money and expertise I would never do something li…

Yeah ... people . But the good news is that once you get past the naive phase of things not working as you expect , there is a light at the end of the tunnel and ways to organise things so that they do work with human (or at least cultural) nature.

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#39

Post by roel_v »

keiferski wrote: post #37
roel_v wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say 'a few' is 3. How can you get any work done when you have to stop every 20 mins (one someone else's schedule) and spend 3 mins making coffee & small talk? This sounds like people saying 'I won't have to pay for child care because I can work from home'. Uh, what? Either you're doing 'child care' or you're 'working from home', but you can't do both (for children < 5), and anyone who says they can, obviously h…

Most smaller art galleries get 5 visitors a day, tops. That industry revolves around openings, events, and networking, not people walking in off the street.

Then why bother at all opening during the day? Surely not for the $5 in profit?

Re: So You Want to Open a Small Press Bookstore/Artist-Run Space? A Cautionary Tale

#40

Post by keithpeter »

chrisseaton wrote: post #7
jaggederest wrote: post #2

The economics of hobby businesses, like bookstores and coffee shops and art galleries, are almost always such that you can either feed it the equivalent of a full time salary, or work there every hour it's open yourself, because the kind of business is one that other people want to do for free as a hobby. This means that, unless you want to be a slave to your own business, you'd better have $50k a year minimum passiv…

So how do coffee shops like Starbucks mange to support 20 working part time plus a corporate headquarters and make a profit, from the same small store you would operate as a hobby?

The authors of Capitalism without Capital would argue that Starbucks are reaping the rewards of their investment in their process as illustrated by the staff manual that sibling comment mentions (just finished reading the book - really thought provoking).

There is a new coffee shop in the Digbeth area of Birmingham UK that appears to be family run and independent. I shall keep an eye on how they are going. Already there is a '10% student discount' sign on the window in felt-tipped pen (Birmingham City University have their Steamhouse project nearby).

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