Live data from Hacker News

Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

nytimes.com

11–20 of 133 posts

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#11
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They overview the different criteria but don't go into how each factor contributes to the overall score Applicants are graded 1 - 6, so an applicant getting 'tipped' doesn't necessarily bump their score. The way I've seen it work elsewhere is just that applicants who are flagged get their entire applications reviewed, so that way someone actually reads the essays instead of just tossing it after spending 30 seconds…

The 1-6 grading I haven't read before this article but since there is no information on how that contributes to the overall application outside of 1 (strong admit) and 6 (strong deny), it doesn't really tell us much. Also, they never mentioned "quotas", just that they try to "looks at factors like parental occupation, which Mr. Fitzsimmons said offer clues about financial hardship, and intended major, to avoid having…

> they never mentioned "quotas"

There isn't a quota in the sense that there is a permanent fixed number, it's all just politics. So you've got situations like someone who donated $100 million to the school had the kid they wrote a recommendation for rejected last year, and now they're pissed so the development office wants to make sure whoever they recommend this year gets in. But then the rowing coach is considering going to another school where they're promised 12 recruits instead of 8, so now you have the AD and the head of development both lobbying the head of admissions to get more slots for their department. And exactly how many each actually gets each year is going to depend partly on how the admissions process is structured, but also on the facts of the situation, who owes who favors, where different people are in their careers and how much they've been contributing to the overall mission and prestige of the university, etc. As well as what the admitted class looks like so far, which can be vastly different a few days or even hours apart.

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#13
If it was up to me, for university admissions there would be a public clear and objective scoring system, based for example only on grades and then use a lottery system weighted inversely by income. No more essays and subjective values, silly extracurriculars or race involved (it's already somehow accounted for in the income).

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#15

> Harvard has testified that race, when considered in admissions, can only help, not hurt, a student’s chances of getting in. So if your race matches their preference they improve your odds of admittance. Since the number of admissions is fixed this reduces the odds of those who have a race that doesn’t match their preference. IANAL but it sounds like Harvard just admitted that they were guilty.

> IANAL but it sounds like Harvard just admitted that they were guilty.

I don't like what they seem to be doing, but Harvard is a private university - they should be able to recruit who they want to based on their own criteria. Of course, it's not a binary thing: universities in the US receive lots of subsidies from local states, so there is a certain expectation of fairness.

Maybe the right thing to do would be to completely cut subsidies if they decide to have a non-public selection process.

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#16

> Harvard has testified that race, when considered in admissions, can only help, not hurt, a student’s chances of getting in. So if your race matches their preference they improve your odds of admittance. Since the number of admissions is fixed this reduces the odds of those who have a race that doesn’t match their preference. IANAL but it sounds like Harvard just admitted that they were guilty.

> can only help, not hurt, a student’s chances of getting in.

Ok, can someone explain to me if this distinction even matters effectively? If every group is getting a bonus and one group is not doesn't that effectively mean that one group is being penalized?

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#18
post #15

> Harvard has testified that race, when considered in admissions, can only help, not hurt, a student’s chances of getting in. So if your race matches their preference they improve your odds of admittance. Since the number of admissions is fixed this reduces the odds of those who have a race that doesn’t match their preference. IANAL but it sounds like Harvard just admitted that they were guilty.

> IANAL but it sounds like Harvard just admitted that they were guilty. I don't like what they seem to be doing, but Harvard is a private university - they should be able to recruit who they want to based on their own criteria. Of course, it's not a binary thing: universities in the US receive lots of subsidies from local states, so there is a certain expectation of fairness. Maybe the right thing to do would be to c…

[deleted]

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#19
post #13

If it was up to me, for university admissions there would be a public clear and objective scoring system, based for example only on grades and then use a lottery system weighted inversely by income. No more essays and subjective values, silly extracurriculars or race involved (it's already somehow accounted for in the income).

That's why it's not up to you and Harvard has a $40B endowment ;)

But more seriously, grades do not correlate across schools in the slightest. The rigor of a public school in rural Kansas vs. a private school in NY could be wildly different. AP scores and SATs correlate well (same test for everyone that takes it), but normal grades do not

And good grades are already a prerequisite for admission, you generally need to averaging an A- average GPA to be competitive. schools want to see that you can balance a ton of things on your plate well (or your parents can afford to send you to classes/camps) rather than just optimize for a 5.0 GPA

Re: Harvard’s Admissions Process, Once Secret, Is Unveiled in Federal Court

#20
post #13

If it was up to me, for university admissions there would be a public clear and objective scoring system, based for example only on grades and then use a lottery system weighted inversely by income. No more essays and subjective values, silly extracurriculars or race involved (it's already somehow accounted for in the income).

Not sure you want that, because then you end up with something like the Iowa system. (Basically, everyone is admitted, because every school optimizes for getting the required score. It's nigh impossible to graduate high school in Iowa WITHOUT the required 245 points for the Iowa schools.)

Giving an explicit formula for scoring, along with a required score, has historically been the same as letting everyone in, because schools, over time, will always "teach to the test" so to speak.

Post reply on HN