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Mechanical Keyboard Guide

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Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#31

Post by aptsurdist »

I'm confused. Why do all of these "elite" keyboards still have oversized dome keys that wiggle around, have a lot of travel, and have big gaps in between them. I'm sorry if this just makes me seem like a mac snob, but how could these compare to a slim, minimal-movement keyboard like this one? http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [edit: I am not normally an obnoxious snob about keyboards, but considering the subject at hand is keyboard connoisseurship, I have to admit my strong appreciation for the slim-key style which didn't seem well represented in the discussion. (Not about mac vs. pc - just about the key-style.)] Maybe I'm missing something as I've never even heard the term "mechanical keyboard" before - some of the nuances might be lost on me.. but I know what I like and I'm pretty sure I would never go back to a large dome key keyboard like the ones shown. ...Oh wait, there is one keyboard shown that has minimalist keys, but it's $2,400! This is ridiculous, maybe I should go into the PC keyboard making business.

(Yes, I know that mac keyboards only work on the mac, but if people care so much about these things, then that's not really an excuse for leaving it out of the discussion. Anyone else feel the same way about the slim-key keyboards being so much better?) edit: correction -I guess they do work on PCs http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1095349

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#32

Post by bonzoesc »

aptsurdist wrote: post #31

I'm confused. Why do all of these "elite" keyboards still have oversized dome keys that wiggle around, have a lot of travel, and have big gaps in between them. I'm sorry if this just makes me seem like a mac snob, but how could these compare to a slim, minimal-movement keyboard like this one? http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [edit: I am not normally an obnoxious snob about keyboards, but considering the subject at hand…

The optimus isn't minimalist by any stretch; the keys are individually addressable screens.

And modern Apple keyboards work on anything with USB or Bluetooth.

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#33

Post by artlogic »

aptsurdist wrote: post #31

I'm confused. Why do all of these "elite" keyboards still have oversized dome keys that wiggle around, have a lot of travel, and have big gaps in between them. I'm sorry if this just makes me seem like a mac snob, but how could these compare to a slim, minimal-movement keyboard like this one? http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [edit: I am not normally an obnoxious snob about keyboards, but considering the subject at hand…

Mechanical keyboards may have lots of travel, but you don't have to use it all. While a mechanical keyboard may have 4-6mm of travel and scissor switch keyboards (like Apple's) only have 2mm, on a mechanical keyboard you don't have to bottom out the keys. Topre switches activate around 2mm - the same as your Apple keyboard. The difference being that your fingers aren't slamming into a hard plastic stop after each activation (unless you choose to bottom out your keys). Furthermore, well made domes don't tend to wiggle much more than the keys on an Apple.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by big gaps - Apple's keyboard also has some pretty sizable gaps between keys. Unless you have tiny fingers I think you'd want those gaps.

More information here: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Gee...

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#35

Post by artlogic »

gnosis wrote: post #29

The problem with a lot of these fancy and expensive keyboards is that they have far too few keys. For instance, the Realforce 87U ($255) has only 87 keys. My current $24 keyboard has 136 keys. And I still wish I had more keys! Using a keyboard with a mere 87 keys would be torture, no matter how pleasant the tactile feedback was.

There are always the Realforce 103U models. If you don't mind me asking, what are the other 33 keys mapped to on your keyboard? In fact, what keyboard has 136 keys?

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#36

Post by aptsurdist »

artlogic wrote: post #33
aptsurdist wrote: post #31

I'm confused. Why do all of these "elite" keyboards still have oversized dome keys that wiggle around, have a lot of travel, and have big gaps in between them. I'm sorry if this just makes me seem like a mac snob, but how could these compare to a slim, minimal-movement keyboard like this one? http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ [edit: I am not normally an obnoxious snob about keyboards, but considering the subject at hand…

Mechanical keyboards may have lots of travel, but you don't have to use it all. While a mechanical keyboard may have 4-6mm of travel and scissor switch keyboards (like Apple's) only have 2mm, on a mechanical keyboard you don't have to bottom out the keys. Topre switches activate around 2mm - the same as your Apple keyboard. The difference being that your fingers aren't slamming into a hard plastic stop after each act…

Cool, that's starting to make a little more sense. By gaps I don't just mean the distance between keys, I mean that your fingers actually feel like they get caught in the deep spaces as you slide over them. But maybe that only pertains to the PC keyboards that I have experience with - the ones with with wiggly keys.(Maybe none of them were mechanical keyboards.)

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#37

Post by jedbrown »

jharsman wrote: post #28
jedbrown wrote: post #23

I have a somewhat strange requirement which seems to be rather rare in stand-alone keyboard layouts (as opposed to laptops). I like to hit Alt_L and Alt_R (which I remap to Control) with my thumbs because it makes Emacs chording far more comfortable. This is very awkward with a long spacebar. The MS Natural keyboards are good with key placement, in my opinion, but I prefer the lighter activation of a notebook. I defi…

A Japanese keyboard layout ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Japanese ) has a shorter spacebar and some extra keys instead. You might be able to remap them to extra modifier keys with suitable software. The Kinesis Advantage ( http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm ) also has a unique layout where you hit modifier buttons with your thumbs, and it uses brown Cherry mechanical switches. It's $300 though…

Thanks for the Japanese layout tip. I've always thought the Kinesis looked neat, but not enough to order one without trying it. I also worry about using something that is so different that I forget how to type on a "normal" keyboard, though I don't have much trouble switching between dvorak and qwerty so my concern is likely unfounded.

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#38

Post by artlogic »

aptsurdist wrote: post #36
artlogic wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mechanical keyboards may have lots of travel, but you don't have to use it all. While a mechanical keyboard may have 4-6mm of travel and scissor switch keyboards (like Apple's) only have 2mm, on a mechanical keyboard you don't have to bottom out the keys. Topre switches activate around 2mm - the same as your Apple keyboard. The difference being that your fingers aren't slamming into a hard plastic stop after each act…

Cool, that's starting to make a little more sense. By gaps I don't just mean the distance between keys, I mean that your fingers actually feel like they get caught in the deep spaces as you slide over them. But maybe that only pertains to the PC keyboards that I have experience with - the ones with with wiggly keys.(Maybe none of them were mechanical keyboards.)

Are you talking about sliding up from home row to the keys above (e.g. J to U)? If so I believe I'm lifting my fingers up slightly (maybe 1mm) when moving between keys. I'm not actually sure if that is good or bad for my typing health, but it does keep me from getting caught in the gaps on an angled keyboard.

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#39

Post by aptsurdist »

artlogic wrote: post #38
aptsurdist wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool, that's starting to make a little more sense. By gaps I don't just mean the distance between keys, I mean that your fingers actually feel like they get caught in the deep spaces as you slide over them. But maybe that only pertains to the PC keyboards that I have experience with - the ones with with wiggly keys.(Maybe none of them were mechanical keyboards.)

Are you talking about sliding up from home row to the keys above (e.g. J to U)? If so I believe I'm lifting my fingers up slightly (maybe 1mm) when moving between keys. I'm not actually sure if that is good or bad for my typing health, but it does keep me from getting caught in the gaps on an angled keyboard.

exactly - I think that lifting your fingers is the 'normal' way to type on a traditional keyboard with raised keys. But, I love that when I type on my low-profile keyboard I feel like my fingers are always in contact with the keyboard and just kind of slide over the tops of the keys to hit their target. On the occasion when I have to use a raised key keyboard, I have to re-remember how to lift my fingers to type. It takes me a minute to adjust before my fingers stop getting caught on all the key corners. Then again, it could just be personal style - anyways, while I am a pretty fast typist, I wouldn't say that I have the most pristine home row technique, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Re: Mechanical Keyboard Guide

#40

Post by jfb »

jedbrown wrote: post #37
jharsman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Japanese keyboard layout ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Japanese ) has a shorter spacebar and some extra keys instead. You might be able to remap them to extra modifier keys with suitable software. The Kinesis Advantage ( http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm ) also has a unique layout where you hit modifier buttons with your thumbs, and it uses brown Cherry mechanical switches. It's $300 though…

Thanks for the Japanese layout tip. I've always thought the Kinesis looked neat, but not enough to order one without trying it. I also worry about using something that is so different that I forget how to type on a "normal" keyboard, though I don't have much trouble switching between dvorak and qwerty so my concern is likely unfounded.

I've been using a Kinesis for ten years, and while it took some time to get comfortable with it, I've never lost my ability to touch type on a regular flat keyboard; probably because I've had laptops around the whole time, and have done plenty of coding on the sofa/train/&c.
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