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Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

imediaethics.org

101–110 of 115 posts

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#101
post #18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The evidence suggests otherwise. Sex crimes researchers R. Karl Hanson and Kelly E. Morton-Bourgon of Public Safety Canada conducted a large-scale meta-analysis (quantitative review) of recidivism rates among adult sex offenders. They found a rate of 14 percent over a period averaging five to six years. Recidivism rates increased over time, reaching 24 percent by 15 years. The figures are clearly out of alignment wi…

> They found a [recidivism] rate of 14 percent over a period averaging five to six years. Recidivism rates increased over time, reaching 24 percent by 15 years That paragraph supports its own opposite conclusion, and actually makes me reconsider my opposition to sex offender registries. You are telling me that the subset of the population that has been convicted of a sex crime once has a 1 in 7 chance of doing it aga…

I think you're misinterpreting those last quotes. It says that sexual offenders are less likely to reoffend than other violent criminals.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#102
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the social contract does seem to dictate that the relationship between criminal and victim is governed by law. For example, if you were to respond to the attack by defending yourself in the moment, resulting in the assailant's death, you would potentially be free of any charges due to your right to defend yourself. However, if you were to wait a day (or, say, until after the assailant's release on what you pe…

That is quite the stretch - no one is arguing that I have the right to beat up my attacker years later. That portion of our interaction is governed by laws. However, talking about facts that have occurred is ALWAYS my legal right. This has nothing to do with the crime the person committed, or the time served, or any other punishment. I am allowed to talk about events, and the legal process is entirely separate. In fa…

>However, talking about facts that have occurred is ALWAYS my legal right. This has nothing to do with the crime the person committed, or the time served, or any other punishment. I am allowed to talk about events, and the legal process is entirely separate.

It's only your legal right because the social contract says that it is. You can imagine a social contract that says once someone has been to prison for a crime, it is in fact against the law to refer to that crime ever having occurred. This is not advocating that reality, just suggesting it's a possible to conceive of a justice system with that set of values.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#103
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is quite the stretch - no one is arguing that I have the right to beat up my attacker years later. That portion of our interaction is governed by laws. However, talking about facts that have occurred is ALWAYS my legal right. This has nothing to do with the crime the person committed, or the time served, or any other punishment. I am allowed to talk about events, and the legal process is entirely separate. In fa…

>However, talking about facts that have occurred is ALWAYS my legal right. This has nothing to do with the crime the person committed, or the time served, or any other punishment. I am allowed to talk about events, and the legal process is entirely separate. It's only your legal right because the social contract says that it is. You can imagine a social contract that says once someone has been to prison for a crime,…

Right, but wouldn't that contract be very strange if it only applied to crimes that I went to jail for? Wouldn't that create a perverse incentive to get arrested for something if you want the thing to be forgotten? Or are we forced to not talk about ANYTHING bad that happened more than x number of years ago? Wouldn't that create a strange world where we create this illusion that everything was perfect x+1 years ago?

The idea of the law saying we have to deny facts that are unpleasant to some people sounds like a distopia to me.

I mean, yes, we can imagine that reality. Many countries do this, and punish people for talking about events that occurred but were embarrassing for the country or specific people. They are not healthy societies.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Paranoid response: if such a versioning ledger were to exist, how could you trust it? Blockchain to the rescue (for real this time, I think, I'm not an expert or a blockchain fanboy). A publicly ledger that anyone can verify hasn't been tampered with is the whole point.

Why not just provide a hash for each version of the document?

That’s exactly how this kind of this is done, using a blockchain. Here is an example of using Tierion (blockchain) to stores hashes of accounting documents, in order to create a probable audit log. https://medium.com/tierion/xero-integrates-with-tierion-to-s...

It seems like the same concept would apply to storing hashes of any other document, such as a newspaper article.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#105
post #93
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are you getting that serving your time in jail gives you the right to have your actions forgotten? Society 'forgives' you when you serve your full sentence, but there is nothing stated anywhere that your victims need to forget what you did once your sentence is up.

The OP article explains the concept of "expungement"

Yes - it is one thing to remove it from official records - it is a whole other thing to ask victims to not remember, or at least not bring up, what a person did.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#106
post #53

Former news editor here. Perhaps the biggest danger in this and other similar policies is not how it is applied today -- removing the names of people accused of minor crimes that have had their records expunged seems like a compassionate policy, given the effects it can have on things like employment prospects -- but in how it may be applied in the future. The idea that a newspaper archive is a collection of living d…

I guess we are entering a realm where the reverse of what happened in the Soviet states, you can remove yourself from history.

I am certainly not keen on archival systems or original stories being modified but search engine searches I can see being masked without too much issue. like a local no robots clause. the library/papers own search should not be affected.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#107
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, talking about facts that have occurred is ALWAYS my legal right. This has nothing to do with the crime the person committed, or the time served, or any other punishment. I am allowed to talk about events, and the legal process is entirely separate. It's only your legal right because the social contract says that it is. You can imagine a social contract that says once someone has been to prison for a crime,…

Right, but wouldn't that contract be very strange if it only applied to crimes that I went to jail for? Wouldn't that create a perverse incentive to get arrested for something if you want the thing to be forgotten? Or are we forced to not talk about ANYTHING bad that happened more than x number of years ago? Wouldn't that create a strange world where we create this illusion that everything was perfect x+1 years ago?…

> Wouldn't that create a perverse incentive to get arrested for something if you want the thing to be forgotten?

I doubt it - if you were never convicted, you can probably sue the ones retelling the story for defamation.

> Or are we forced to not talk about ANYTHING bad that happened more than x number of years ago?

The whole 'right to be forgotten' thing is not even about forcing people not to talk about something. It's mostly about not having a mistake pop up as the first hit on google for the rest of someones life. You can talk about whatever you like, but you may not be allowed to publish whatever you want, if it would take away another persons chance at starting over.

> Wouldn't that create a strange world where we create this illusion that everything was perfect x+1 years ago?

No, and I have no idea why you would have that idea. Before internet search engines were a thing, few people would have the know-how, time, and motivation to look other people up in news archives. Did people believe that the past was perfect back then? Of course not! So why would that happen now?

> The idea of the law saying we have to deny facts that are unpleasant to some people sounds like a distopia to me.

But that's not what it is about! It's about not constantly bringing up old facts that have little relevance to the present so that people can improve their lives instead of getting in a downward spiral because of something bad in the past.

Suppose a long time ago you once farted very loudly (by accident!) in a very inappropriate setting, such as during a funeral, when everyone was silent. Someone catches that moment on video. They upload it online. They tag it 'cortesoft? more like corteloud! #fart', and somehow it ends up being one of the top hits when people google your name. At some point in the future you apply for a job, and another candidate is chosen because the company don't want to risk their new employee farting loudly during business meetings. So your career has taken a dent, to balance your budget you have to eat beans most days of the week...

Hey, it could happen. That funeral-fart is a fact, and therefor it must be published, in eternity! No matter that it was a one time thing, that you have been avoiding vegetables linked to flatulence for the past 15 years, and that you feel very sorry about it. To remove it from the internet is to create a dystopia. Any law that would permit people to take down such videos about them would lead to a strange world where the illusion is created that people didn't fart x+1 years ago.

Okay, perhaps the example is just slightly ridiculous. But the point is that just because something is technically a fact, doesn't mean that it's necessary worth repeating forever.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#108
post #54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not your right to dispense such justice--that in fact belongs to the state in a civilized society. I think this example proves the exact opposite of what you desire. Someone who has spent time in jail and had their record expunged 10 years later has been deemed by the state to have satisfied the burden of their offense, and, yes, their right to have their actions forgiven and forgotten should be at its zenith. […

Where are you getting that serving your time in jail gives you the right to have your actions forgotten? Society 'forgives' you when you serve your full sentence, but there is nothing stated anywhere that your victims need to forget what you did once your sentence is up.

... and when the crimes are "victimless" i.e. fail to uphold basic criminal code principles requiring an actual particularizeable harm?

What then?

How about all the false arrests? False convictions?

People bludgeoned into pleaing guilty to avoid ridiculous overcharging and sham courts? What about them?

What happens when we fully implement chinese-style "social credit"? Thought-crimes?

Your media is already heavily manipulated. If you think it isn't, you're an idiot.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#109
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP article explains the concept of "expungement"

Yes - it is one thing to remove it from official records - it is a whole other thing to ask victims to not remember, or at least not bring up, what a person did.

If "bring up" means putting it online where everyone with a name and 20 seconds on google will find it, then there isn't really any point to removing something from official records.

That said people wanting to be forgotten tend to just ask for search engines to ensure that their name will no longer be connected to certain pages rather than having the information removed entirely.

Re: Cleveland.com’s ‘right to be forgotten’ removes names from some crime stories

#110
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but wouldn't that contract be very strange if it only applied to crimes that I went to jail for? Wouldn't that create a perverse incentive to get arrested for something if you want the thing to be forgotten? Or are we forced to not talk about ANYTHING bad that happened more than x number of years ago? Wouldn't that create a strange world where we create this illusion that everything was perfect x+1 years ago?…

> Wouldn't that create a perverse incentive to get arrested for something if you want the thing to be forgotten? I doubt it - if you were never convicted, you can probably sue the ones retelling the story for defamation. > Or are we forced to not talk about ANYTHING bad that happened more than x number of years ago? The whole 'right to be forgotten' thing is not even about forcing people not to talk about something.…

Yes, that situation would suck, but you can’t use the law to stop people reminding you of things you did. Not every bad situation can be fixed by laws, not without creating even worse problems.
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