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The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

quantamagazine.org

1–10 of 71 posts

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#2
Philip Ball explores the problems that many world interpretation poses to the concepts of self and meaningfulness of life in the sense that he understands them.

Nothing in the article clearly points to problems in physics or even philosophy of physics in many world interpretation.

Makes me feel uncomfortable is not very deep argument.

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#3
Here's the article in short.

1. "Roland Omnès says the idea that every little quantum “measurement” spawns a world “gives an undue importance to the little differences generated by quantum events, as if each of them were vital to the universe.” This, he says, is contrary to what we generally learn from physics: that most of the fine details make no difference at all to what happens at larger scales."

2. "What can it mean to say that splittings generate copies of me? In what sense are those other copies “me?”" / "Consciousness relies on experience, and experience is not an instantaneous property: It takes time, not least because the brain’s neurons themselves take a few milliseconds to fire. You can’t “locate” consciousness in a universe that is frantically splitting countless times every nanosecond"

3. "You could become a billionaire by playing quantum Russian roulette. Your quantum splitter is activated while you sleep, and if the dial says Up then you’re given a billion dollars when you wake. If it shows Down then you are put to death painlessly in your sleep." / "But a committed Everettian should have no hesitation about doing so using the quantum splitter. For you can be certain, in this view, that you’ll wake up to be presented with the cash. Of course, only one of “you” wakes up at all; the others have been killed. But those other yous knew nothing of their demise. Sure, you might worry about the grief afflicted on family and friends in those other worlds. But that aside, the rational choice is to play the game."

4. "Alice is put to sleep before the measurement is made, knowing she will be wheeled into one of two identical rooms depending on the outcome. Both rooms contain a chest. Inside one is twice her stake, while the other is empty." / "But what if Alice were to say, “The experience I will have is that I will wake up in a room containing a chest that has a 100-percent chance of being empty”? The Everettian must accept this statement as a true and rational belief too, for the initial “I” here must apply to both Alices in the future." / "In other words, Alice Before can’t use quantum mechanics to predict what will happen to her in a way that can be articulated — because there is no logical way to talk about “her” at any moment except the conscious present (which, in a frantically splitting universe, doesn’t exist)."

Sengachi's reply in the comments below basically summarises my reaction.

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#4
>What can you do with this power to generate worlds and selves? You could become a billionaire by playing quantum Russian roulette.

Quantum suicide isn't exploitable, for reasons I went over in a thread on reddit:

>One thing about these quantum immortality (or modal realism, dust theory, etc.) arguments is they imply one should expect to end up in those proportion of worlds that have the highest measure in which "you" exist. And the most probable actions you should expect to remember are the highest-measure actions that leads to the perpetuation of your conscious experience.

>In this way quantum suicide is not really exploitable, as the vast majority of "your" measure will be in worlds where you find quantum suicide to be unappealing. Even failed attempts will be of much smaller measure then those in which you never try. So stories like Permutation City are sort of the equivalent of stories in which magic is the result of quantum fluctuations. They don't violate any laws of physics but they focus on such a ridiculously myopic slice of possibility space that it is a little absurd, even when you condition on the continuation of conscious experience.

Even if it were exploitable, this is not a reason to doubt many worlds, any more than time dilation is a reason to doubt relativity.

This great comment on that piece by Sengachi is a must read: http://disq.us/p/1wnl71q

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#5
post #2

Philip Ball explores the problems that many world interpretation poses to the concepts of self and meaningfulness of life in the sense that he understands them. Nothing in the article clearly points to problems in physics or even philosophy of physics in many world interpretation. Makes me feel uncomfortable is not very deep argument.

Larry Niven had a nice short story on that, called "All The Myriad Ways". The Wikipedia article on the short story collection of the same name [1] includes a link to the story itself in their collection of old Galaxy issues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_Myriad_Ways

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#7
post #4

>What can you do with this power to generate worlds and selves? You could become a billionaire by playing quantum Russian roulette. Quantum suicide isn't exploitable, for reasons I went over in a thread on reddit: >One thing about these quantum immortality (or modal realism, dust theory, etc.) arguments is they imply one should expect to end up in those proportion of worlds that have the highest measure in which "you…

I'm not sure why you're being downvoted so heavily. You're contributing to the discussion.

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#8
post #3

Here's the article in short. 1. "Roland Omnès says the idea that every little quantum “measurement” spawns a world “gives an undue importance to the little differences generated by quantum events, as if each of them were vital to the universe.” This, he says, is contrary to what we generally learn from physics: that most of the fine details make no difference at all to what happens at larger scales." 2. "What can it…

People ridicule the nonlocality of Pilot Wave theory. But I’d rather question locality than embrace Everett’s many-worlds theory. If you need to postulate such amazing complexity just to say basically nothing in terms of realism, then you’ve already lost.

Meanwhile as one good physics professor pointed out, none of these alternatives to PWT even rule out nonlocality. So why not just assume it and be done with the weirdness?

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#9
Of course it seems weird to think of Many Worlds as somehow manufacturing universes for each fluctuation. That seems weird and wrong ... because it probably is.

A better way to think of it is as the equivalent of the relativistic block universe. All these different spaces already exist in some superspace, and ‘random’ events take you from one space to a neighboring one. Nothing is manufactured.

Re: The Many-Worlds Interpretation Has Many Problems

#10
Quantum suicide is a fascinating thought experiment. If consciousness is a property of a certain type of brain (or calculation?), then the concept of ‘’’me” is just a variation of the anthropic principle: I believe my subjective experience to be something unique, but there’s nothing unique or special about a human brain and the conscious experiences it produces.

So even if there are billions of worlds, there aren’t billions of “me”s out there. There are simply billions of consciousnesses which share common memories and thought patterns. Each variation would believe itself to be the true “me”, when in fact they are all wrong: there is no “me”. Just the consciousnesses that all those brains create.

So in quantum suicide, there is no transfer of any sort. One consciousness is simply extinguished forever. The other continues.

This aligns somewhat with Buddhist teachings about the illusion of “self”. I don’t believe in the supernatural, but one could consider the idea of reincarnation as merely the fact that there are not instances of consciousness, but instead manifestations of one phenomenon. Which could possibly mean that if you are a conscious being reading this comment at this moment, you can rest assured that your death will not stop “you” from continuing to experience subjective experiences as another person, in another place, at another time. You just won’t realize it, because you won’t be “you” anymore.

Or maybe it’s all nonsense.

I have a hunch there is a variation of quantum suicide that would be less lethal, but no less measurable.

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