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Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

80000hours.org

131–140 of 149 posts

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything?

No, he's saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything.

[deleted]

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#132
The moral seems to be "Don't do anything, because there are always too many risks, many of which aren't obvious." If we followed this, nothing would ever get invented or done, and we'd still be hunter gatherers, so I'm not really feeling it.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#133
post #10

This is very interesting! But I've seen a lot of push back against this kind of thinking in some political groups. For example saying that you should follow norms of niceness when promoting a cause - people call that tone policing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing You could say you should criticise the people who are tone policing rather than the people who are worked up about a cause that personally effec…

People who criticize tone police are technically right that the content of an argument is what should matter, but that smacks of ignorance of how humans engage in conversation. If someone is screaming at me and ending every sentence with, "you fucking moron!", there is approximately a 0% chance I'm going to take them seriously and I'm going to assume emotional outbursts will be sent in return to any responses I care…

> See what Howard Dean’s screaming did to his campaign.

I totally agree with everything you said, except this isn’t a fair or good example of what you’re talking about at all. That meme was a manufactured attack. Dean was rallying, and if you watch it in context, there’s nothing there. The clip was taken out of context to make him look irrational. You can do that to pretty much any politician with videos from rallies.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#134

There are a couple of other issues that could be added to this list. Credit One of the sayings that I know to be (mostly) absolutely true is, "there is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit." I have a (much more successful, and respected) friend to whom it is something of a mantra. On the other side, seeking credit has a lot of pitfalls. The obvious one is taking credit for someone…

I agree, humans are probably the single hardest among multicellular life to entirely wipe out. Not because we're hardier than cockroaches, or hibernate when it's cold.

There's just so many of us, and every last one of us would be hellbent on survival. At this point in our technology and understanding, I bet there could be survivors of extinction level events equaling the K-T extinction that wiped out the dinosaurs.

People already have bomb shelters that can last them months; feeding people does not require sunlight, only dirt, water, lamps and electricity. Nuclear winter can't stop the flow of electricity, survivors of any event can jerry-rig surviving wind turbines, nuclear power, geothermal, or hydro to create life sustaining electricity.

Would the survivors be smart enough to accomplish such feats? Of course, assuming they could read. The internet may collapse but the abundance of printed material, even doomsday vaults containing encyclopedias can provide for entertainment and education in long post-apocalyptic nights.

These things exist: https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/amazing-doomsday-bunkers-of...

When people fret and worry about the fate of the human race.

I'm not worried. People will adapt and figure it out like they always have. The only thing people need to worry about is their own survival in harsh times.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#135

Imagine a first year medical student who comes across a seriously injured pedestrian on a busy street, announces that they know first aid, and provides care on their own...but imagine that a passerby who was about to call an ambulance refrained because the student showed up and took charge Then he's not following his first aid training. One of the first things they taught in my first aid class is to send someone for…

That reinforces the article though.

"You take on a challenging project and make a mistake through lack of experience or poor judgment"

The student thought they were doing good, but they did not ask someone to call for help due to lack of experience / poor judgement, worsening the situation potentially.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything?

No, he's saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything.

Yes, I'm saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#137

A good example of that is Germany. They removed Nuclear from their energy sources and now need to use coal instead to compensate. But it gets better than that. Denmark focused primarily on wind energy with the consequence that this summers heatwave resulted in them having to get their energy from Germany who now without Nuclear had to use even more coal.

> They removed Nuclear from their energy sources

Nope, it's not 2022 yet [1].

> and now need to use coal instead to compensate.

Looks to me that wind/solar is compensating for the gradual decline in nuclear, and also for the bulk of increasing demand [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#Closu...

[2] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#138
post #137

A good example of that is Germany. They removed Nuclear from their energy sources and now need to use coal instead to compensate. But it gets better than that. Denmark focused primarily on wind energy with the consequence that this summers heatwave resulted in them having to get their energy from Germany who now without Nuclear had to use even more coal.

> They removed Nuclear from their energy sources Nope, it's not 2022 yet [1]. > and now need to use coal instead to compensate. Looks to me that wind/solar is compensating for the gradual decline in nuclear, and also for the bulk of increasing demand [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany#Closu... [2] https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

It's also coal.

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything.

Yes, I'm saying that Thanos just delayed overpopulation for a constant amount of time, and didn't really solve anything.

Unless the universe will only continue to support life for less than that constant amount of time. A temporary fix is permanent, for sufficiently large values of "temporary." (See also: UUIDs.)

Re: Ways people trying to do good accidentally do harm instead and how to avoid them

#140

I feel weirdly (perhaps irrationally) about the effective altruism people including 80,000 hours. I just can't shake the cult-y vibes they give off. Am I alone in this?

My bigger issue is the slight whiff of... dare I say it? Privilege?

Look, don’t get me wrong. Publicising good causes and helping people direct their charity can do no harm. I won’t criticise that. But instructing your readers to do economics PhDs, or join an investment bank, or take an internship at a thinktank, is assuming they enjoy some enormous opportunities.

Most people cannot do those things, not even if they went to Oxford. They cannot do an MBA or live on the subsistence wages of the modern academic. Like most human beings in the history of civilisation they can only choose how to be instruments of power and capital, which often means doing things only indirectly related to the public good.

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