Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 153 posts

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#131

Post by charlesdm »

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #77
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, this feels like an issue that will naturally fix itself over time, as landlords realize what they're asking for isn't reasonable.

> And, this feels like an issue that will naturally fix itself over time, as landlords realize what they're asking for isn't reasonable. Except it won't, exactly because landlords are rational actors. Let's say the upkeep for a space is $400/mo, and the rental for that same space is 3000/mo. A storefront could be vacant for 2 years and a landlord would still turn a hefty profit if they were able to get someone to sig…

"Hefty profit"? I don't see how that is good investing -- properties sell based on yield. If someone buys a prime property and it generates 3 or 4% per year.. then they're not going to let it sit empty for two years.

Renters do have leverage here. You're not going to get it for $1000, but you might for $2500 or $2200.

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#132

Post by malvosenior »

whack wrote: post #125

Let's recap the author's main points: - Retail revenues are not rising as fast as rent - Hence, shopping/merchandise stores are being replaced by bars/restaurants/coffee-shops etc Ie, businesses that sell stuff are being replaced by businesses that sell experiences. Great! Consumerism and materialism is a black hole for your soul. What I really care about are vibrant experiences. Interesting bars/restaurants where my…

Paying for experiences like this is still consumerism.

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#133

Post by dba7dba »

samstave wrote: post #74

If you want to see a ghost town - Tahoe City Ca is decimated by AirBnB+Money. I grew up there, and I was there last weekend for my Dad's memorial service.... I hadnt been back to Tahoe City for some time - and man, its freaking depressingly bad. The "mall" -- the Boat Works, has basically 4 shops any longer, the retail spaces near Tahoe City Golf is boarded up and has weeds - many retail spaces are empty, the freakin…

It's sad to see long term residents getting priced out of a community, and the city/neighborhood turning into playground/home of mostly rich.

Same thing is happening near Silicon Beach in southern California, that is coastal cities near where Youtube/Google/snapchat have HQ or satellite offices.

Santa Monica housing price has long ago gone Manhattan, NY like. Just use google map and realty websites, and check house price history in cities adjacent to Santa Monica.

It's gone up 100% or more in last 5 years or so. It is not uncommon to see a 50+ year old house with little land get sold for nearly a million dollars, and be razed/remodeled into an easily 2 million or more house.

Some retiree who sold the old small house certainly made bank.

But who has 2 - 3 million dollars or the ability to take on a debt of that magnitude?

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#134

Post by aboodman »

da02 wrote: post #83
aboodman wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived there for years and loved it. It makes for an incredibly vibrant neighborhood feel. Everytime you go for a walk there's someplace new to stop. Yes, lots of places don't make it, but lots of places do make it and stick around for awhile.

What are some stores, companies, or brands that seem to survive and thrive?

I just looked and here are some of my ex-regular haunts from ~16 years ago that are still kicking:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/japonica-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/irving-farm-coffee-roasters-new-yor... https://www.yelp.com/biz/musical-box-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/venieros-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-mogador-new-york

:: shrug ::

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#135

Post by dbattaglia »

qubax wrote: post #19

It became a ghost town because of the elites and their supporters like theatlantic. Manhattan now is just a place where people from the outer boroughs, nj, connecticut, etc come to work and then go home. For a city that pretends to "never sleep", it is just a dead city at night. Queens, brooklyn, etc is more lively and other cities around the world like prague, barcelona, seoul, tokyo, osaka, etc are far more vibrant…

It’s still as lively as ever at night here in the east village.

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#136

Post by gowld »

da02 wrote: post #81
ardit33 wrote: post #18

I live in manhattan and I feel this story is a bit exaggerated, or at least I don't see the author's reality. (Him quoting a Real Estate firm, which is interested in activity, doesn't give credence to the data). The turnaround of restaurants and bars here is amazingly fast. When one fails, another one springs up. The same street will have very different storefronts each year. I once asked a restaurant owner, on how i…

Are their profit margins (even with high prices) paper thin? Maybe the people making money are the one selling franchises? (Pardon for my lack of understanding of the retail NYC market.)

If there are no vacancies, all the profit is going to the landlords (monopolists)

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#137

Post by bko »

subpixel wrote: post #95
ardit33 wrote: post #18

I live in manhattan and I feel this story is a bit exaggerated, or at least I don't see the author's reality. (Him quoting a Real Estate firm, which is interested in activity, doesn't give credence to the data). The turnaround of restaurants and bars here is amazingly fast. When one fails, another one springs up. The same street will have very different storefronts each year. I once asked a restaurant owner, on how i…

You're missing a critical element of this scenario: key money. When business A fails, the owner does not sublet to business B - they sell their lease, and they charge a hefty fee. So business B has to pay for the privilege of paying already exorbitant rent. Also, with respect if you moved to NYC in 2013 you've never actually experienced what came before hyper-gentrification.

> When business A fails, the owner does not sublet to business B - they sell their lease, and they charge a hefty fee. So business B has to pay for the privilege of paying already exorbitant rent.

If business A can sell the lease for a premium then the market rate for that lease is higher than originally signed. Even if they broke the lease, the owner would likely charge the higher rate to business B. The owner won't just automatically just give the new lessee the same terms

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#138

Post by notyourday »

megaman8 wrote: post #84
pmalynin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imputed income is not taxable in the United States, according to Wikipedia.

i think it may have to do with the type. I won a free yearlong gym-membership in a contest, from a govt workplace and was told I would have to pay imputed taxes on it. Needless to say, I turned it down.

That's because it was a gift of a fixed value that gym declared. If gym ran it as a promotional sale for $1.00 then you would have needed to pay taxes on a $1.00.

It is similar to person A borrows from a person B $10,000. B pays back $100. Person B decides that A is a deadbeat and declares $9,900 a loss. Since B no longer needs to repay $9,900 the $9,900 becomes income to A. B sticks A with a 1099 for $9,900. Now A needs to pay taxes to the IRS on $9,900 that he got from B.

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#139

Post by [deleted] »

aboodman wrote: post #134
da02 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some stores, companies, or brands that seem to survive and thrive?

I just looked and here are some of my ex-regular haunts from ~16 years ago that are still kicking: https://www.yelp.com/biz/japonica-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/irving-farm-coffee-roasters-new-yor... https://www.yelp.com/biz/musical-box-new-york https://www.yelp.com/biz/venieros-new-york-2 https://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-mogador-new-york :: shrug ::

[deleted]

Re: How Manhattan Became a Rich Ghost Town

#140

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

notyourday wrote: post #54
vidanay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it's like a gambler's addiction. They want to hold the property open because "Someday is going to call me and say they need 30,000 sq ft of retail space by next Tuesday, and I can't afford to lose that deal because there's a Halloween store using 500 sq ft this week and a Christmas tree shop in the parking lot next month"

If a commercial space is owned by the landlord free and clear, then the landlords have zero incentive to rent it to collect smaller than desired revenue unless property taxes are so high that the landlord must lease the space to at least cover the property taxes. If course that means that the rents skyrocket for all properties as the property taxes now eat majority of the rent. If the landlord has a fairly regular co…

That makes me feel sick. As a society we really shouldn't be operating based on expecting property to constantly appreciate, it's going to do us in.
Post reply on HN