OpenBSD 6.4 released • Hacker News Board

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#61

Post by JoachimS » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #16

JoachimS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well does the inverse works - running VMs in OpenBSD to use Windows, Linux? Is it for example possible to run Virtualbox with good performance in OpenBSD? I'm tempted at using OpenBSD as OS, but need to run things like MS Office. A VM is probably the easiest way to do that.

> How well does the inverse works - running VMs in OpenBSD to use Windows, Linux? Is it for example possible to run Virtualbox with good performance in OpenBSD? As far as I know this is not possible. You can always do it with qemu but it wouldn't be practical. If libreoffice is not appropriate for your needs, you may try googledocs inside the browser.

MS Office is just one of many applications that I need to use. I use loads of EDA tools that either only exists for Windows, or Linux.

I have been a user of LibreOffice since it was called StarOffice. It is dog slow, still has an ugly UI, crashes etc. But for many things it has been and is good enough. (and keeps getting better). Unfortunately, customers wants to use Word-specific files, Excel-specific files with macros and whatnot that just don't work in Libre. Google does not handle these files correctly either. It is not a fault of these alternatives, but a world where people don't realize that they are being locked in. They use the features of the tools they have to solve their problems.

(I guess this became a bit off-tangent)

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#62

Post by JoachimS » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #16

JoachimS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well does the inverse works - running VMs in OpenBSD to use Windows, Linux? Is it for example possible to run Virtualbox with good performance in OpenBSD? I'm tempted at using OpenBSD as OS, but need to run things like MS Office. A VM is probably the easiest way to do that.

> How well does the inverse works - running VMs in OpenBSD to use Windows, Linux? Is it for example possible to run Virtualbox with good performance in OpenBSD? As far as I know this is not possible. You can always do it with qemu but it wouldn't be practical. If libreoffice is not appropriate for your needs, you may try googledocs inside the browser.

QEMU sounds like a rather heavy way to do it.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#63

Post by JoachimS » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

ch_123 wrote: post #28

JoachimS wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well does the inverse works - running VMs in OpenBSD to use Windows, Linux? Is it for example possible to run Virtualbox with good performance in OpenBSD? I'm tempted at using OpenBSD as OS, but need to run things like MS Office. A VM is probably the easiest way to do that.

There is an OpenBSD-specific hypervisor (vmm) in recent releases. I cannot comment on whether it is suitable for running VMs at this time.

Ok, I'll check it out. Thanks!

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#64

Post by tinuninu » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

pulsarpietro wrote: post #22

mruts wrote: post #13

Linux is a depressing mess after you've used OpenBSD. Such a high quality system, with stellar documentation. It's unfortunate that Linux has become so popular even though the BSD's are so much better. A bad historical accident. Damn you Linus...

I have been a Linux user for more than a decade - recently switched to OpenBSD and I must say I agree. Linux has become a chaotic place to be, I agree.

This means nothing to me. Can you be more specific why /Linux has become a chaotic place to be/.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#65

Post by kbenson » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

RandomTisk wrote: post #17

I run OpenBSD as my border firewall which it handles very well. One thing I wish that OpenBSD devs would change in their philosophy is the --help messages. Many commands simply offer a list of switches, as if that's somehow helpful. Sometimes you need the detail in a man page, but a lot of times you don't and it would save so much time and energy to have a succinct list in the --help message itself. # syspatch --help…

I view it as a trade-off for excellent man pages. Rather than waste time figuring out what the appropriate amoutn of and commands to list in the short help list (especially for commands that might have a lot of and/or complex options), they have very simple rules. List switched with help, list everything and very clearly in the man page.

Since I believe they don't accept code patches without relevant man page patches that explain them if they alter the behavior or add/modify an option, this seems like a sane way to avoid bikeshedding on what is essentially superfluous information, since the "appropriate" amount of info to include is ambiguous.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#66

Post by AndyMcConachie » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

RandomTisk wrote: post #17

I run OpenBSD as my border firewall which it handles very well. One thing I wish that OpenBSD devs would change in their philosophy is the --help messages. Many commands simply offer a list of switches, as if that's somehow helpful. Sometimes you need the detail in a man page, but a lot of times you don't and it would save so much time and energy to have a succinct list in the --help message itself. # syspatch --help…

Read the manpage.

One thing I really dislike about modern UNIXes is their lack of decent manpages in place of standins like --help.

I love the BSDs and especially OpenBSD for their attention to manpages. It's the main reason why I don't use Linux anymore unless I have to.

Adding detailed --help messages would take time away from maintaining manpages, it also presents a duplication of information. If you want to know what the switches do, read the manpage.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#67

Post by anthk » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

mishac wrote: post #40

aquabeagle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a GNUism, so you won't find it in BSD tools.

It's a good GNUism though, that I also wish the BSDs supported. No-one's saying that the BSDs should start supporting GNU style --long-options or switch to info instead of man, but friendlier help messages are always a nice thing.

RTFM

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#68

Post by reacharavindh » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #13

Linux is a depressing mess after you've used OpenBSD. Such a high quality system, with stellar documentation. It's unfortunate that Linux has become so popular even though the BSD's are so much better. A bad historical accident. Damn you Linus...

It's not fair to compare the two. I love OpenBSD for use cases where I care about correctness, stability, security even at the cost of performance or the having the latest feature set. Firewall, DNS, HTTPD and the like.

However, when it comes to running scientific applications and squeezing out last bits of performance or servers where people expect stuff to "just work, and if doesn't do apt-get blah", it's Linux that takes the cake.

FreeBSD and ZFS - the best I've worked with for Network Attached Storage. Can't believe it is just free.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#69

Post by chousuke » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:41 PM UTC

I run OpenBSD on my router and it's great. It was refreshing to not need Google for figuring out how to set things up, because everything is in the included manual pages, which often do a great job explaining new concepts. Want a quick intro to OSPF? man ospfd

I don't think I'll run OpenBSD as a desktop OS unless performance drastically improves, but it's staying on my router for the foreseeable future.

Re: OpenBSD 6.4 released

#70

Post by oneanddone » Thu, Oct 18, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

tinuninu wrote: post #64

pulsarpietro wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been a Linux user for more than a decade - recently switched to OpenBSD and I must say I agree. Linux has become a chaotic place to be, I agree.

This means nothing to me. Can you be more specific why /Linux has become a chaotic place to be/.

Not OP, but I will offer my thoughts.

Linux is terribly balkanized what with all the competing distros. There are no standards. This is one reason why Linux has not taken off on the desktop outside of tech circles.

systemd. It violates almost every *nix tenet out there, especially "a program should do one thing well". It's has a few benefits, but the negatives outweigh these, namely more and more programs outside of the base system now require systemd. This should never be. I and millions of others agree that an init system should be able to be tweaked as text files. Not happening now. The logs are stored as binaries when they should be plain text. Debugging is more difficult. A program should do one thing well. Full stop. There is always BSD and Slackware, and I don't think Slackware will adopt systemd, as their user base doesn't want it. Slackware is the oldest currently-developed Linux distro out there and the vast majority of users want it to remain true to its roots while still advancing.