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Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

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Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#81
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cough Pinkertons cough

What is pinkertons?

Back in the day if you were a factory boss and the workers wanted to unionise, you would phone Pinkertons and they would send thugs to violently assault any union members. This is what they called “private detectives”.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#82
post #49

I'm decidedly against government surveillance, but it feels like our government are deliberately inviting crime to further the needs and arguments for complete surveillance. Now that violent attacks against the police and emergency services, stabbings, rape, murder and generally a complete refusal to accept the law become more common, I'm at the point where unsolved crime bothers me more than protecting people's priv…

> Now that violent attacks against the police and emergency services, stabbings, rape, murder and generally a complete refusal to accept the law become more common [...] Citation needed.

Which one do you want citations for?

These are all publicly accepted problems by now, so I'm not going to do a writeup for all of them just because one person asks for it.

Your downvotes change nothing, by the way. This is not a sinister outlook, it's already happening right now and I'm provably right.

We get more police and they get more permissions, including broader surveillance, and they're looking to adopt tasers like in the U.S. The last few years did this and hardly anyone is arguing it anymore.

The surveillance state you don't want is coming, and you are the reason.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#83
post #72

> Regardless of our views on the military, no one should be profiting from “increasing the lethality” of the military. It makes no sense for these two clauses to exist together. If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military. Especially when the author follows up with this sentence: > We will not silently build…

Maybe ‘profiting’ was the key bit? Maybe they think it’s ok for the government to build weapon systems but not for civilians to profit from doing that same work? But then can suppliers profit? Is a salary profit for an individual? Not really sure it ‘scales’ as an point of view.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#84
When it comes to enabling domestic surveillance there is too much focus on Amazon/Google/etc and too little focus on the voters and city governments that seem to be perfectly ok with their police departments engaging in this sort of crap.

This is like blaming whatever company makes M113s when they wind up in the hands of local police.

Now, I don't consider Amazon or the bureaucrats who are rubber stamping the paperwork for APCs to be blameless but they're definitely not the root cause. The fact that there is a domestic market for this crap it the root of problem.

This is also something that voters have a lot of power to chance because it's a city/town level issue and while it's getting cheaper all the time implementing a surveillance state still is still expensive so there's an avenue to drum up bipartisan support for not doing it.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#85
post #72

> Regardless of our views on the military, no one should be profiting from “increasing the lethality” of the military. It makes no sense for these two clauses to exist together. If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military. Especially when the author follows up with this sentence: > We will not silently build…

I agree. Even if your doctrine is purely defensive you show develop in efficient, profit seeking framework. Question the doctrie, not the efficiency.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"at the end of the day if amazon doesn't do this someone else will" "If Amazon doesn't fuck over people someone else will, so who cares" is a shit argument.

Personally, I see it as the opposite side of the same argument people use about drugs - that simply banning things doesn't work, motivated people will find another way to obtain them. There is no one more motivated and persistent than the US Government... Even if all the US tech firms join together and refuse to sell to them, the US is not the only country on Earth with tech companies making innovations in this area.…

Even if all you gained was a delay, which I certainly don't believe is true[1], then it would still be a big win.

[1] their tech would most likely be much inferior, and when the likes of Google/Amazon/Facebook/etc. have to choose between getting kicked out of countries or providing their tech to authoritarian governments, then they usually pick the latter.. because profits is more important than the imprisonment and death of millions.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#87
post #72

> Regardless of our views on the military, no one should be profiting from “increasing the lethality” of the military. It makes no sense for these two clauses to exist together. If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military. Especially when the author follows up with this sentence: > We will not silently build…

> If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military.

That doesn't follow. One can believe in the utility of the military while at the same time holding that it must operate purely as a public service, so that no incentives are created for a state of permanent war. Famously, an American president expressed this very concern. I doubt that Dwight Eisenhower did not believe in the utility of the military, given that he was a general.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"at the end of the day if amazon doesn't do this someone else will" "If Amazon doesn't fuck over people someone else will, so who cares" is a shit argument.

Personally, I see it as the opposite side of the same argument people use about drugs - that simply banning things doesn't work, motivated people will find another way to obtain them. There is no one more motivated and persistent than the US Government... Even if all the US tech firms join together and refuse to sell to them, the US is not the only country on Earth with tech companies making innovations in this area.…

People who don't think that the NSA already has technology that even casinos use have their heads in the sand.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#89
post #16

Won't the tech be built regardless of Amazon? It is either SV companies help with it and reduce costs or else blood-suckers such as IBM will come in with their contracts and low tech but costly solutions..

Make up your mind, will the solution work if IBM makes it? If so, then it's not really low tech. If not, then Amazon staying out of the game did exactly the right thing because all of the capable people abstained.

I mean, it can work but not perfectly. For face recognition tech, accuracy matters and my hypothesis is that Amazon could do better vs. IBM. And Amazon doing it could be much cheaper and better. The taxpayers money will be spent regardless and in one case it would be more efficient.

Re: Amazon Employee: We Shouldn’t Sell Facial Recognition Tech to Police

#90
post #72

> Regardless of our views on the military, no one should be profiting from “increasing the lethality” of the military. It makes no sense for these two clauses to exist together. If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military. Especially when the author follows up with this sentence: > We will not silently build…

> If you do not believe that people should profit from increasing the lethality of the military, then you do not believe in the utility of having a military. That doesn't follow. One can believe in the utility of the military while at the same time holding that it must operate purely as a public service, so that no incentives are created for a state of permanent war. Famously, an American president expressed this ver…

Unless the staff operating the public service receive no compensation at all, then there is profit involved.
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