Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#181

Post by simion314 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

setr wrote: post #175

simion314 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not mentioned if you teach python to kids, things that are intuitive to us are not for them, yesterday I was working with my son on Physics exercise, something like how much Km are 1234cm (we are using metric system here) and in all similar exercises he did everything reversed, like a few centimeters are a few millions of Km which is obvious absurd but it was not easy for me to make him understand(plus the te…

That just sounds like a direct result of not memorizing the prefix orders; not of anything related to actual understanding (or failing thereof). What happens if you give him a reference sheet? (I have little experience teaching kids but I’m a firm believer in that the only good test is one where all the puzzle pieces are provided; its the composition thats worth testing, knowing the pieces by heart is just to speed t…

It is not that, he knows that 1Km=1000m and 1m=100 cm, the issue is when you want to transform Km in cm or reverse, I assume he memorized how to do it in school but it was not natural, did not understand it and at home it applied the things he learned but in reverse. What surprised me was that he could not realize how absurd the results are.

A thing I learned by doing the homeworks with my son is that is also easy to think that the child learned/understood your nice explanations/graphics/examples he does all the exercises/problems correct and then 1 week later he won't be able to do the exercises again, so I will repeat them again after 1 or 2 weeks to make sure he still knows how to do it. This may be different with other children or different teachers

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#182

Post by yellowapple » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:21 PM UTC

This is almost exactly what TempleOS was/is billed to do; you'd need to provide the hardware, but once you've installed it, you end up with a machine that boots into a REPL/shell using the same language (HolyC) used to write the whole OS itself (and all the applications thereof).

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#183

Post by bartread » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #75

mstevens wrote: post #9

I found the CG Maximite lately, which powers on to BASIC and has composite video or VGA out: http://geoffg.net/maximite.html There's also the fignition which has a composite out and powers on to forth: https://sites.google.com/site/libby8dev/fignition But does require assembly & soldering.

Colour Maximite is a lot of fun [1]! The BASIC environment it has is quite powerful, and it even runs a full-screen text editor. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQA8lowEKOo

Beat me to it: I was going to post a link to the 8-Bit Guy's video as well.

There are, I believe, various versions available and if you just want something to learn and write BASIC programs on it's difficult to imagine a better place to start because it boots directly into a BASIC prompt, just like 8-bit microcomputers from the 80s.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#184

Post by codebolt » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

nicolashahn wrote: post #23

potta_coffee wrote: post #3

The closest thing I've found to this is Pico-8: not a computer, a piece of software, but it's very cool. It has a simple text editor for writing Lua code, a simple sprite editor, and a simple sound editor, all for creating games. It's a nice little sandbox for playing with code and creating things. https://www.lexaloffle.com/pico-8.php

I upvoted this but I need to reiterate my support. When I was a kid, I was heavily into video games and had a burning desire to create my own. However, the options for doing so were not great. One of my middle school teachers tried to introduce us to programming via creating Space Invaders in perl, which went as well as you might imagine. There were a few GUI game making applications that were all terrible and extrem…

You think you had it rough, at 15 I taught myself C/C++ Win32 programming with COM and early DirectX versions from textbooks and online tutorials. I'm thankful now though, as most modern frameworks are a breeze to learn by comparison. Looking back it was a bit like learning to swim by jumping in the deep end of the pool. It certainly gave me the confidence that I can figure stuff out, even in a new domain. And it's given me some valuable lessons in what makes a good vs bad API design.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#185

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

I'm testing a business right now for fun family learning activities. The original offering is an arts-and-craft type product.

But if it works out, one of the products I want to test is something computing related. The general idea is a digital escape room. But this thread has been super inspiring and led me to a lot of great resources, so thanks for bringing it up [=

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#186

Post by vgoh1 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

I think that the Arduino is worth mentioning, even though it fails the "power on to basic" need of the OP. Once setup, it is fairly easy to compile and upload to the board, and there is a lot that you can do with it, if they are not to into making thier own video games.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#187

Post by inetsee » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

itomato wrote: post #140

alliecat wrote: post #17

Hear me out here; Apple's Swift Playgrounds on an iPad. I'm involved in an extracurricular thing in Scotland focused on giving kids an environment they can figure out computers. We've seen a lot of different approaches to the problem of "how can we get kids to code", and Swift Playgrounds is consistently where we see youngfolk making the most progress. It gives you a nice, guided framework to get the very basics of p…

I'd wager that a complete 8-bit system with printer and cassette storage is a better tool for learning.

My first computer had cassette storage. I would not want to inflict that on anyone.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#188

Post by tajen » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

Kadin wrote: post #125

simion314 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why not use pi + python? Do you have experience with teaching python to kids? I am afraid to try it with my son because white space is important, I tried only Scratch and making him think as "a machine" is hard enough adding syntax errors on top would make the job much harder, let me know if you have experience with this and if you think I am wrong.

Python seems like a nice update to what BASIC was in the 8-bit era. Real-time interpreter so you get instant feedback, including very simple imperative syntax. (IMO any introductory programming environment that doesn't let you do something like 10 PRINT BUTTS 20 GOTO 10 and get BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS... out of it is a failure to launch.) But unlike BASIC, Python will grow with you and you can use it for non-trivial projec…

I too regret staying for 12 years on GW/Visual Basic and never finding my path to C. How to start a programming career slowly...

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#189

Post by Jach » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

tomc1985 wrote: post #74

If it boots to a bash prompt, you can program that :P Actually, I wonder if kids could learn shell script?

This was going to be my suggestion. You could also make sure some sort of curses library is installed, e.g. https://bashsimplecurses.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

But really the question is misguided. Kids need to want to do something with a computer, and in order to do that they will learn shell script, basic, javascript, asm typed from magazines, whatever, to get it done. The environment itself is instrumental, not terminal.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#190

Post by nyjah » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

JacobJans wrote: post #178

This post reminds me of a running line of thought that's been going on in my head for quite some time: "Single Purpose Devices." The main disadvantage of most computing devices is that they offer too many options; making them mentally unwieldy. A "single purpose device" is created to support just one purpose. The Kindle is perhaps the most famous example; it practically created an industry. Sure, it can do more than…

I know I am lucky to have this setup, but I keep 2 laptops and 2 tower computers or 4 separate computers. 1 for biz, 1 for downloading and email, 1pc for gaming, and 1 for activities best kept in private browsing..