You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping • Hacker News Board

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#191

Post by eesmith » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

MrEfficiency wrote: post #86

sillyquiet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet strangely, the loudest voices AGAINST doing away with tipping in favor of a wage are often wait staff themselves.

This seems like such a non-issue, I'm not sure why articles are written about tipping. Wait staff love tips because it gets them paid significantly more than if they worked a retail job. After visiting Europe, tips are necessary for good service. The rudeness and lack of service was culture shock.

While my experience in Europe has been just fine, in Italy, Germany, and the UK. Though in the UK I was confused about the lack of service, until I realized that I needed to order at the bar.

There is a stereotype that blacks are worse tippers than whites. As https://www.ebony.com/news-views/are-black-people-really-bad... comments, it might be because blacks have "Insufficient education about tipping", or "a loop of circular behavior where Blacks have been traditionally discriminated against, Blacks expect to be treated poorly and treat servers with disdain, servers treat Black patrons with less care because they “know” Blacks tip poorly, and Blacks continue to tip poorly because they continue to get substandard service." (there are a couple of other proposed reasons).

See for example http://www.tippingresearch.com/uploads/JFSBR_race_revision_a... which includes the quote “I will not take Black tables unless I have no other option; call me racist, but I also walk out with more money than the people who end up with them.”

Yes, if you are a black American, you might get rudeness and lack of service in service in your own country - because wait staff think you won't tip well.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#192

Post by ApolloFortyNine » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

pbiggar wrote: post #116

121789 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is strange and not at all how I think about tipping. I tip if the service can be a differentiator (servers, bartenders, baristas at smaller coffee shops). If the person is just giving me change and handing me some food/drink and barely interacting with me, a tip really isn't warranted IMO.

Try to think of the tip as less of a "service charge for a job well done" and more of a tax to benefit those who aren't as well paid as you are.

No thanks? I'm buying coffee, not donating to charity.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#193

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:56 PM UTC

pbiggar wrote: post #95

n1000 wrote: post #16

Haha. Glad to see this. I’m new to the US and thought the tip was expected...

Some advice from a less recent immigrant: tip everywhere. It's much simpler than figuring out the rules, esp (as the existence of the article points out) the rules change. The old 15% became 20%. The places you used to tip (solely personal service situations like a waiter or hairdresser) became everywhere. If it was done right, everyone would be paid well, there would be no tips, and your stuff would just cost 20% mo…

You are the reason why everyone and their mother has a tipping jar!

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#194

Post by jjuhl » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #165

jjuhl wrote: post #17

No guilt. No tip. Never. If they want more than the listed price they should raise the listed price. Social customs/expectations/guilt/whatever be damned. I never tip. Never have, never will.

I agree with the principle behind your choice, and even consider it laudable. However, in my opinion, your behavior is badly misguided - in fact, I'd characterise it as a naive and childish attack on innocent people. Sorry, I know that's pretty insulting, but it's my best attempt at a full and honest, but measured description of my opinion. Part of why it's so harsh is because, reading your posts, I don't think you s…

Thank you for the straight forward and honest opinion. You are right, I don't suffer from any misunderstanding. I simply don't want to pay more than advertised and I think tipping is just the wrong way to pay for services - that should just be included in the price. And then I guess I'm simply not a very empathetic person and I have no problem with other people considering me a jerk - I simply don't care. And as long as others pay something that keeps prices low for me, I benefit, so although I don't like the system it pays off nicely and I'm not ashamed to exploit that.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#195

Post by hesk » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

late2part wrote: post #103

spdionis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem the other way around? In Europe taxes are included in the price from the start.

That's because the VAT paradigm obscures the taxes; in US and some other places the amount paid is separated into "cost" and "tax."

It's not really obscured. Actual costs and taxes are stated separately on every receipt or invoice. It's just that the advertised price has to include taxes.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#196

Post by bhhaskin » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

zackmorris wrote: post #26

After losing my keister in the housing bubble I made a deal with myself to never use credit again and to always tip at least 20% to make the world a better place. Pretty much all non-salary jobs are underpaid now by a factor of 2-4 so tips can add up to more than a paycheck. I also like to think that it makes up for the people who undertip or don't tip at all. Edit: I now have one $2000 expense card that I pay off ea…

But what if tipping is a big part of the reason people are underpaid? What if by tipping you are just moving the issue along.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#197

Post by kentosi » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

MrEfficiency wrote: post #86

sillyquiet wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet strangely, the loudest voices AGAINST doing away with tipping in favor of a wage are often wait staff themselves.

This seems like such a non-issue, I'm not sure why articles are written about tipping. Wait staff love tips because it gets them paid significantly more than if they worked a retail job. After visiting Europe, tips are necessary for good service. The rudeness and lack of service was culture shock.

Visit Australia. Tips are not expected and the service is excellent.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#198

Post by awalton » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #140

codemac wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked at a restaurant or in a tipped position? It constitutes a HUGE part of your take home pay for two reasons: - If you are a waiter, tips will be multiples of your hourly pay. - Tips will be under the table, saving you another ~25% easily. So if you make a tipped hourly wage in Ohio: - $4.15/hr * 7 hour shift (5pm open to 12pm close): 29.05 - Wait 6 tables, each with 3 seated parties, that tip you e…

> If your job gave you an untaxed 400% bonus at the end of every day, would you vote against it? I'd be rather more worried about getting caught by the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency.

If you're getting audited when you're working at or near the poverty line, the world's fucking broken. There are billionaires out there running around paying next to no taxes because they just don't feel like it and the IRS hardly ever shows up at their doors. They only like to stick it to the millionaires - especially celebrities and other "rags to riches" stories - since that "sends a message" to us work-a-day salaried folk not to get too shifty with the IRS.

If the IRS went on a crusade against underreported tips, there would be an absolute bloodbath in the poorer parts of this country, as tips easily represent more of their income than wages. Fortunately untaxed tips have dropped dramatically now that fewer and fewer people are using cash for transactions, so the IRS has had to take no such corrective actions.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#199

Post by eutropia » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

jjuhl wrote: post #17

No guilt. No tip. Never. If they want more than the listed price they should raise the listed price. Social customs/expectations/guilt/whatever be damned. I never tip. Never have, never will.

If everyone behaved as you did, then you would get either substantially worse service or substantially more expensive restaurants. Right now you're arbitraging the good will of other people to pay for the service that you're not willing to pay, i.e., freeloading; because you're still benefiting from the current system and not the experiencing other system you'd consider to be "fair".

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#200

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

awalton wrote: post #145

ip26 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is a barista etc one of those jobs?

Yes. Any front-of-house restaurant staff that gets a share of tips are subject to those laws, and it's ridiculous. Worse, some restaurants even force the tips to be split between dishwashers, who actually are making minimum wage in many cases, so waitstaff get crushed even harder.

It's illegal to force waiters to split tips with non-tipped workers unless the restaurant gives up the "tip credit" (referring to the portion of the minimum wage that they get to treat as paid out of tips) for the split tips.