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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#111

Post by philipswood »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93
blihp wrote: post #81

For those of us who grew up in the 8-bit era, this has a lot of appeal since that's how we got engaged. But for most kids today, is this sort of ab initio approach really the right way to go about it? Based on my experience with a few different types of kids/personalities, I'm skeptical. Dropping them into the command line / IDE of any language / environment is likely to leave them both unimpressed and lost. Neither…

Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…

Kids today have it difficult!

A real computer, by definition is something you can program.

Today you don't just find accessible devices meeting that requirement in the wild.

In the microcomputer era you pressed the power button and you had a REPL prompt.

Today there _is_ a computer hidden somewhere inside you laptop or mobile device, but you need to know where to dig to find it.

In the 80s a newly hatched geek just had to crawl over the beach sand until he reached a device and it was a computer.

Today's kids are surrounded by computers, but they are all deeply embedded in the devices around them.

After hatching, a modern geek needs someone needs to break the husk around their device to get at the computer first.

So your recipe is exactly the recipe for exposing him/her to a computer.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#112

Post by lioeters »

forinti wrote: post #66

I recently found out about a Japanese computer called Ichigo Jam: https://ichigojam.net/index-en.html Seems to be something between a Micro:bit and a Raspberry Pi and has Basic built in.

The site seems to be down (403) - but I found some related pages:

IchigoJam BASIC on Raspberry Pi - https://ichigojam.github.io/RPi/

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/IchigoJam

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#114

Post by collyw »

swiley wrote: post #35

Just give them a computer running linux without going all the way to runlevel 5. Bash is fairly expressive and gets you the basics of programming, and then you can easily use a more complex language fairly easily and have all the abstractions from bash that lets you build fairly useful programs without having to build complex UIs.

Way too complicated and bash has a horrible syntax.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#115

Post by astrodust »

xena wrote: post #107

I wish TempleOS was in more of a state to be usable by kids and the like, but it is about the gold standard for this kind of stuff I feel.

Yeah, no. It's an interesting art project, but it's completely ill-suited to be a learning tool.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#116

Post by fit2rule »

Disclaimer; I have raised my kids with my computer collection, which means we've done all of the following and found great rewards:

Just get an old, retro, 8-bit computer to use to teach your kids computers. Seriously.

Something like an Amstrad Spectrum +3. Or maybe a CPC6128. Or an Amiga - although all of these machines can easily be used only as games-machines, the documentation for creating software on them is a high-value read. My kids love the +3 and the stack of 80's magazines with type-ins and machine-code tutorials. These are awesome, still, 30 years later and with a few modern accessories, are simply awesome systems - and they will still teach your kids to program, and to manipulate computers, in ways beyond the reach of the average consumer-bot. By way of an 8-bit machine, new students can learn all the components of computing, and immediately apply it to bigger/newer/contemporary things.

Of course you have to appreciate the aesthetic.

So another thing you can do is load up an old laptop with antirez' wonderful LOAD81:

http://github.com/antirez/load81.git

We have a Toshiba tough-book running puppy booting directly to LOAD81. This is a modern version; and has the bonus of being a Linux-machine behind the curtains, to boot. Another great avenue.

And then, if you can find it, you could do the cocktail thing and get a PocketCHIP .. mine sits in the drawer, wrapped in its 3d-printed keyboard, ticking away .. so I'm still using it. But its pretty much the 'pocket boot to basic' ideal, since it comes with PICO8 already ready already.

(OpenPandora, DragonPyra: same deal; probably a fair bit more expensive though...)

The key thing is: as long as there is a compiler on-board, you can 'boot your kids to basic'. If you get results with a new-school retro-rig (OricAtmos+Cumulus ForeveR!), or if you just re-purpose an old laptop with auto-boot to load81, there are definitely options for this ethos ..

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#118

Post by astrodust »

veli_joza wrote: post #51
joeberon wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love pico 8, but I think that Lua is probably the worst language for coding in an editor that can fit so few characters on the screen, and it feels like using an external editor defeats the point. Granted, I haven't used the software in a couple of years, has it improved on the editor front?

I'm surprised you feel that way. Lua seems like a perfect choice for pico-8. Its syntax is friendly and concise, and it's maybe simplest language to embed, with tiny footprint. Almost all other languages I know of would be a worse choice. Scratch would be nice, but graphical editor is harder to integrate. What's more suitable language in your opinion?

The great thing about Lua is the language itself is so small, and not just from an implementation perspective. The spec and documentation are also small because there's not much to learn.

You can explain it in an afternoon. Try that with C++ or JavaScript.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#120

Post by fit2rule »

swiley wrote: post #35

Just give them a computer running linux without going all the way to runlevel 5. Bash is fairly expressive and gets you the basics of programming, and then you can easily use a more complex language fairly easily and have all the abstractions from bash that lets you build fairly useful programs without having to build complex UIs.

Linux machines can easily be rigged to boot straight to a user, with LOAD81 in auto-start.

http://github.com/antirez/load81.git

{{I like to pimp LOAD81 any chance I can get, because its simply a great idea from a rockstar programmer, and it could probably do with some eyeballs and patch requests from those interested in this particular subject .. it could easily, for example, become a next-gen PICO8 with a few tweaks (e.g., ipfs integration, lol...)}}

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