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Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

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Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#101

Post by simion314 »

kyleperik wrote: post #97
simion314 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why not use pi + python? Do you have experience with teaching python to kids? I am afraid to try it with my son because white space is important, I tried only Scratch and making him think as "a machine" is hard enough adding syntax errors on top would make the job much harder, let me know if you have experience with this and if you think I am wrong.

If you use a nice text editor, whitespace shouldn't be an issue. Even with any other language, you would want to show them how and why to indent. If it becomes an issue, they may be writing code that's too complicated. In other words, I think a child will more easily learn about indentation, than handle writing flat code, which can get difficult to understand pretty quick

You did not mentioned if you teach python to kids, things that are intuitive to us are not for them, yesterday I was working with my son on Physics exercise, something like how much Km are 1234cm (we are using metric system here) and in all similar exercises he did everything reversed, like a few centimeters are a few millions of Km which is obvious absurd but it was not easy for me to make him understand(plus the teacher at school).

My point is that something that is obvious and simple for us for someone else makes no sense(he is 12 and I don't have experience teaching other children),

For now I gave up on teaching coding to him, maybe he needs to grow a bit more to understand the abstract thinking required.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#102

Post by dsr_ »

Legogris wrote: post #59
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #18

Raspberry PI cab be said to be evolved from a ~ power-on-to-BASIC computer; to wit: the (BBC) Acorn Archimedes. You can still get RISC OS for it even. Basically, you power on; hit F12; *BASIC >_ and bob's your uncle: you get a nice BBC BASIC prompt at the bottom of your screen. https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi (that said, why not use pi + python? It's the new BASIC. And it supports turtle gra…

> and bob's your uncle Completely OT, but I had just had to look up this phrase and the supposed origin made me chuckle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob%27s_your_uncle

Surely Bjorn Stronginthearm's my uncle?

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#103

Post by AntonyGarand »

ddebernardy wrote: post #99

Couldn't an old (or a new?) HP graphic calculator do the job? It's not technically basic, but you can do tons of stuff on it in addition to arithmetics and function plotting - including programming games, etc. Plus, it's organized as a LIFO stack. To do e.g. 2 * (2 + 2) you'd enter: 2, 2, 2, +, *. Which helps train the mind to think far ahead about what you want to calculate and how.

This is known as the Reverse Polish Notation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#104

Post by evo_9 »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #94
evo_9 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if your kid has access to a MacBook Air? Would you still start him/her out on an iPad or is it the same experience starting out on a Mac? Or is it too much/overwhelming to get started on Mac/Xcode from the get-go? Great suggestion, thanks for sharing this.

I think it would come down to if you can get the lesson books in Xcode's Playgrounds (or if they have a separate Playground application) that you can in the iPad app. Those are most of the benefit right there.

Thanks, very helpful !

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#105

Post by city41 »

Another option, a modern Commodore 64. For example the C64 Mini has BASIC: https://thec64.com/basic/

It doesn't boot directly to BASIC, but I do believe that is achievable with other modern C64s, like the C64 DTV: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#106

Post by UncleSlacky »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #18

Raspberry PI cab be said to be evolved from a ~ power-on-to-BASIC computer; to wit: the (BBC) Acorn Archimedes. You can still get RISC OS for it even. Basically, you power on; hit F12; *BASIC >_ and bob's your uncle: you get a nice BBC BASIC prompt at the bottom of your screen. https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi (that said, why not use pi + python? It's the new BASIC. And it supports turtle gra…

This cut-down version boots straight to BBC Basic: https://www.riscosopen.org/content/sales/risc-os-pico

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#108

Post by nurettin »

I will tell you why whatever you find won't feel like the old C= 64 no matter how good the properties are emulated.

It is the culture, and the music. You will never find an equivalent, so might as well consider yourself lucky, move on and let the kids beat their keyboards typing JavaScript into their browser in debug mode. If you want to give them something they can program as soon as it boots up, just install any Linux on any pc.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#109

Post by majormajor »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93
blihp wrote: post #81

For those of us who grew up in the 8-bit era, this has a lot of appeal since that's how we got engaged. But for most kids today, is this sort of ab initio approach really the right way to go about it? Based on my experience with a few different types of kids/personalities, I'm skeptical. Dropping them into the command line / IDE of any language / environment is likely to leave them both unimpressed and lost. Neither…

Kids have it too easy today, they don't have to work very hard to get decent computing experiences, and its not like they have to do any programming at all to have fun. It is also super easy to get addicted to just consuming all the time. It is quite depressing. My kid is still a toddler, but I think I might put a stripped down CLI-only computer in his room when he reaches 5 so he can at least play with it if he want…

Is this so new? 25 years ago kids were addicted to cable/phone/Genesis/VHS and never "had" to do any programming to have any fun, either.

There was a phase where people expected that people starting on iPhones even younger than people started on Windows in 1993 would make them more technologically literate, but that was optimistic - they're iPhone-literate to the same level kids then were Windows-literate.

Actually understanding things at the machine level was very rare back then, too, though.

Re: Ask HN: Is there a modern “power on to basic” computer, for kids to learn on?

#110

Post by CiaranMcNulty »

reubeniv wrote: post #61

An actual commodore64 is still an option https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koch-International-242390-THEC64-Mi... The mini boots straight to basic still I understand Otherwise I'd recommend some free software and some tutorials, Udemy has a very good C# Unity course for example that can often be found at ~$/£10

It boots to a loading screen from which you can select BASIC or a game
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