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Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

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Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#51

Post by tbirrell »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #30
joewee wrote: post #17

Speaking from experience you need two resumes (I’m much younger, but with a long career). One that’s management focused and one that’s developer focused. Use the appropriate resume for the role you are applying for. Even though I’m a hands on engineer people didn’t want to consider me for roles because I had management experience and they thought the engineering role would be too boring, and vice versa. Reduce your r…

So if you've been in and out of management and technical roles (like myself), how do you make those gaps between two resumes not look like gaps? Or, do you simply address it in interviews when asked?

Explain the role in management/development centric terms. Project management can be "lead a team of devs" or "managed a project". Think of it more like translating to two different languages, rather than being selective with the information you are sharing.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#52

Post by alphakappa »

rb808 wrote: post #20

I wonder if its ethical to change some of the dates. Eg if you graduated in 1980 it makes it obvious how old you are. If you leave dates blank it kinda doesn't make much difference, but if you said you graduated in 2000 it would mean you get an interview at least. Edit - I get it the issue will come up at some stage. But explaining why you changed the dates later in the process is better than not getting an interview…

If you have to ask, then yes, it’s hugely unethical. If the date is an issue, leave it out of the resume. But fudging anything is deception, and expect it to come out during a background check that many companies routinely do.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#53

Post by joewee »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #30
joewee wrote: post #17

Speaking from experience you need two resumes (I’m much younger, but with a long career). One that’s management focused and one that’s developer focused. Use the appropriate resume for the role you are applying for. Even though I’m a hands on engineer people didn’t want to consider me for roles because I had management experience and they thought the engineering role would be too boring, and vice versa. Reduce your r…

So if you've been in and out of management and technical roles (like myself), how do you make those gaps between two resumes not look like gaps? Or, do you simply address it in interviews when asked?

I try to highlight the technical aspect of the work. Sometimes it’s just word play. For example, we’re you a “senior project manager” Or “senior technical lead” but primarily I create bullet points for each role. 8 bullet points, 4 are technology focused “customer facing web application using Python...” 4 are management focused “managed a team of 6 developers to achieve” and I simply remove 4 for each role depending on what I think they are looking for. The objective of the resume is to get a interview.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#54

Post by fooblat »

If you are in a position to relocate, I would consider looking in cities like Berlin, London, Amsterdam, and Dublin. The job market for software engineers in Europe is really hot and most companies will pay for relocation of senior engineers. Additionally, age and experience are valued.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#55

Post by infecto »

Serious question. Is ageism a huge deal? I am not arguing it does not exist but I think about what I have seen in the interviews I have done. We all have biases and I will never be completely unbiased but I try to at least be aware. I sometimes feel that ageism is actually the filter. I notice people I have worked with they at some point stop caring and they kind of give up. They don't stay relevant with whats happening in the industry.

Some of the issues I have seen that can be construed as ageism I will list.

* Candidates lack of awareness. They have a 2-5 page resume. I see the resume and I wonder how unaware they are. Yes, resumes do not matter but when I get 3 pages filled with large paragraphs I worry the candidate lacks awareness. So far its been a good indicator. * Candidates who belittle me during the interview process. * Candidates who have not kept up with technology. No I don't expect you to know the latest framework but understanding patterns that have emerged in the past 5 years seem relevant. I dislike the latest and greatest technology but its important to understand the general trends. * Candidates that generally who have had zero prep for the interview process expecting the resume/experience to tell all. Yes, algorithms are not the best determining factor but it's at least a minor indicator. When we work through a problem does the other person just give up?

Let me state again that I believe it exists but I sometimes have a hard time separating true ageism and just a clear distinction between people who have stayed relevant and not relevant.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#56

Post by cortesoft »

grmarcil wrote: post #19

With 35 years experience, I expect that you have a pretty wide professional network - consider whether you're using those connections to get warm introductions and pointed to good-fit jobs to the greatest degree possible. My apologies if this is stating the obvious, but if your applications are starting with just a resume, you're already at a disadvantage at any age. And I suppose that effect only increases with year…

Yeah, at this point in my career the idea of doing a cold interview is nearly unthinkable. When I am looking for work, I just reach out to the people I have worked with before that I like and let them know I am in the market.

Cold interviews should probably only happen for your first job.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#57

Post by jhabdas »

I saw an architect with a family depending on him get fired from Trunk Club (selling your car back to you kind of company) and he was probably in his 40's. What I decided was that the company didn't care about quality just the bottom line. Which not only makes you unemployable for life Gen X can't even get a job because of capitalism.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#58

Post by pmarreck »

There may be ageism but I hate to admit appearance also matters to some degree, in case that may be a factor.

Also, a lot of what people call "ageism" should more rightfully be called "culturalism" IMHO, and it's harder to fault people for simply getting less along with someone much older (on the other hand, I've had MANY older friends)

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#59

Post by jhabdas »

jhabdas wrote: post #57

I saw an architect with a family depending on him get fired from Trunk Club (selling your car back to you kind of company) and he was probably in his 40's. What I decided was that the company didn't care about quality just the bottom line. Which not only makes you unemployable for life Gen X can't even get a job because of capitalism.

selling your fat* back to you. if you need a car head to CarMax. thanks Gboard. programmed by geniuses

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#60

Post by electricslpnsld »

rb808 wrote: post #20

I wonder if its ethical to change some of the dates. Eg if you graduated in 1980 it makes it obvious how old you are. If you leave dates blank it kinda doesn't make much difference, but if you said you graduated in 2000 it would mean you get an interview at least. Edit - I get it the issue will come up at some stage. But explaining why you changed the dates later in the process is better than not getting an interview…

Most background checks verify graduation dates with the institutions you have degrees from, so this would almost certainly come up.
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