Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#41

Post by nnash » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:32 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #8

Heck I'm only over 40. I did a handful of interviews at places where folks who I went to school with also interviewed. I got a lot of "culture" questions. My younger classmates, did not hear the world "culture" in their interviews, ever. It's hard not to be pessimistic and assume "culture" was about age...

Try being a minority, and consistently get rejected because you aren't a good "culture fit" on an all white team.

edit: I didn't mean to sound like I was trivializing your experience. The "culture fit" is really nasty and sucks for everyone who isn't "the norm".

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#42

Post by CodeWriter23 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #20

I wonder if its ethical to change some of the dates. Eg if you graduated in 1980 it makes it obvious how old you are. If you leave dates blank it kinda doesn't make much difference, but if you said you graduated in 2000 it would mean you get an interview at least. Edit - I get it the issue will come up at some stage. But explaining why you changed the dates later in the process is better than not getting an interview…

It is not ethical. Criminally, it would be called “fraud”, though I doubt anyone will call the cops on you. The way this bites you in the ass is HR figures it out and uses it against you or to coerce you somehow, post-hire.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#43

Post by rb808 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:33 PM UTC

wild_preference wrote: post #31

rb808 wrote: post #20

I wonder if its ethical to change some of the dates. Eg if you graduated in 1980 it makes it obvious how old you are. If you leave dates blank it kinda doesn't make much difference, but if you said you graduated in 2000 it would mean you get an interview at least. Edit - I get it the issue will come up at some stage. But explaining why you changed the dates later in the process is better than not getting an interview…

Well, surely it's better to leave your integrity up in the air than lie and leave no doubt.

If you have an interview and they complain about the date on the resume, I'd think your integrity would be better than the company's.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#44

Post by jitix » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #9

I'm in Atlanta, and I work for a SF-based tech company. Most of my coworkers are in their 40's and 50's, and a few are 60. In Atlanta nobody cares about age or background. We also have way more diversity by almost every measure - when I fly out to SF, people look and act the same way. I don't bat an eye when I interview someone older than me. I expect that I'll probably learn a thing or two. Message me. If you've got…

This. In my experience working in North Carolina, I’ve seen the same. Our team consists of people from all age groups. In fact I’ve seen that the cautious and planned approach taken by my older co workers works better than the hack-n-deploy approach taken by younger developers.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#45

Post by poulsbohemian » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

With those credentials, you should be able to get any job you want. Thinking out loud here, I'm wondering if you are truly over-qualified for some of the positions. Or, are they worried about being able to keep you or afford you. That's not entirely agism, though it can appear that way on the surface.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#46

Post by collyw » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

C1sc0cat wrote: post #16

mrunkel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they use instead?

LinkedIn my last job search I hardly did any direct job searches and I am hem hem close to 60

linked in is effectively an online resume.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#47

Post by benatkin » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

mchannon wrote: post #4

One theory: The Bay Area has become seriously ageist. Many people have a hard time accepting working for someone a generation younger than them, and especially hiring a subordinate a generation older than them. The people reviewing your resume and interviewing you won't say it (they're not allowed to by law) but they'll definitely be thinking it, and it ends up being a huge waste of your time. I genuinely think it's…

There's also confirmation bias. If you go in with a slight bias against age, and you hire someone over 35 who doesn't work out well, you can come up with some reason that's related to their age. What people don't realize is that if they hire an older engineer that does well in the role, their age will also have something to do with it.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#48

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:36 PM UTC

docker_up wrote: post #22

Anything more than 10 years old on your resume is worthless. Yes, you may have 3 STEM undergrad degrees, but no one cares because it's not relevant anymore. What modern technologies have you recently worked with? What does your resume show, 20 years at the same company, or do you have experience at well-known, "prestigous" companies like FANG? Are you pigeon-holed into a specific area, or are you a generic, back-end…

"3 STEM undergrad degrees, but no one cares because it's not relevant anymore"

Anyone hiring people for specific things they learned in University is doing absolutely the wrong thing.

Many high end schools don't even have very rigorous applied computing standards, meaning, they might have some hardcore CS stuff, but they don't necessarily encourage good programming habits, patterns, culture etc..

So the education I think always counts for a lot, it's the work experience from 30 years ago that actually may be less relevant.

One opportunity might be to find something 'related' - for example, writing documentation, doing sales support, technical product management - basically anything but front-line engineering. There are a lot of such jobs.

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#49

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #30

joewee wrote: post #17

Speaking from experience you need two resumes (I’m much younger, but with a long career). One that’s management focused and one that’s developer focused. Use the appropriate resume for the role you are applying for. Even though I’m a hands on engineer people didn’t want to consider me for roles because I had management experience and they thought the engineering role would be too boring, and vice versa. Reduce your r…

So if you've been in and out of management and technical roles (like myself), how do you make those gaps between two resumes not look like gaps? Or, do you simply address it in interviews when asked?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Over 60 = no engineering jobs?

#50

Post by fecak » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

I'm a professional resume writer and job search strategy consultant (20 years of tech recruiting experience), and I'd be open to taking a look to see what the issue might be (see my profile for contact info). It might not even be the resume, but instead your approach to how you're applying. If you're just sending resumes through Indeed and hoping for responses, you're doing it wrong.

The age thing may be an issue of course. If it's abundantly obvious from your resume that you are 60 or older, a reader may make assumptions about you that aren't true. Once a client reaches 40 I typically start to at least address the possibility of ageism and options to mitigate the risk if they are interested.

There are even some simple things such as resume formatting that could be at play. For examples, resumes with tables and images can be more difficult for ATS systems to parse.

Dozens of possibilities. I'm happy to take a look if you'd like.