Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita • Hacker News Board

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#141

Post by osullivj » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:33 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #106

notyourday wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is just signaling of intellectualism. Most of English translations of classic Russian lit suck -- for example one is highly unlikely to get by reading English translation of "The Master and Margarita" that it is satire even if one gets hundreds of pages of foot notes. Volokhonsky and Peavar do the best but one still needs those hundreds of pages of footnotes which are just not there. Reading TMAM pretty much requi…

That's pointless projection. I read The Master and Margarita a long time ago because I read somewhere that it was one inspiration for the Rolling Stone's Sympathy for the Devil, so I wasn't exactly driven by pretentious intellectualism. It still managed to become one of my favorite novels and I even started learning Russian because of it (still working on that actually). I hope someday I'll be able to read it in the…

IIRC the English translation of Master & Margarita was first published in 1968. Marianne Faithful pass her copy to Mick Jagger, who read it in one sitting, overnight, then write Sympathy for the Devil. What Jagger wrote was a long way from the final recorded version [1]. When Jean Luc Godard filmed the Stones recording in 68 for his One Plus One movie he was lucky enough to capture the evolution of the song in the studio: the tempo was cranked up, samba drums and woo-woo vocals added, and Keef did the bass and guitar parts.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEtM576c8Ik

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#142

Post by jvagner » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

corpMaverick wrote: post #138

protonfish wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be true if what you call "news" was objectively valuable information. To me it appears more strongly curated to misinform and create irrational emotional responses for the benefit of some (mostly political leaders and large businesses) to the detriment of the audience.

Agree that that is BIG assumption. I just didn't want to bring all the misinformation issue in to the discussion. IMHO, It is better to be uninformed than misinformed.

also: you may have choices to make in a mind free of the trappings of the news that the constancy of the news is likely to undermine

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#143

Post by habosa » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

widforss wrote: post #58

habosa wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a version with enough footnotes to help me understand that underneath a funny and beautiful book is an attempt to use satire to say something serious about the regime that Bulgakov lived under. Part of what makes this book so great is how it is effective at this goal but also just fantastic literature. I'm a heavy reader but bad at reviews. All I can say is read this one. One of the best books I've ever read a…

Do you have an ISBN or link to that version?

https://www.amazon.com/Master-Margarita-50th-Anniversary-Pen...

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#144

Post by jabgrabdthrow » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

ragequitta wrote: post #51

yosefk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could he learn from the news that would influence his actions or even opinions? If the answer is "nothing", what's the downside for this guy?

In my case I've been publicly shamed once or twice because I'm not up on what the latest generation finds offensive. Maybe that's just what getting old is though. Apparently we're not allowed to say 'that one chick from the alien films' or 'miss/ms' enternamehere without deeply offending some of the population to the point of being yelled at. There are many other examples of this I'm sure, but I don't get out much. I…

If it’s obvious social signaling and not rooted in any real argument about use of language and morals, just laugh and shake your head

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#145

Post by simtam » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

Say, how are things with adaptations of "The Master and Margarita" into other media? There was some Hollywood movie undergoing, or wasn't it? Pretty sure I didn't mistake it with the Fantastic Beasts franchise...

I myself gonna humblebrag, one of my mods for Skyrim is named "Never Talk To NPCs" after the first chapter of the book. Of course it's only rehashing a few selected tropes, not an adaptation in the strict sense.

So is "The Master and Margarita" really for people who feel low in their lifes? My activity once led me to reading a thread on 4chan about "The Master and Margarita", where the OP-anon insisted there's no point in a book where there is magic and "the protaganist [i.e., Woland] can do everything". Not sure if it was genuine trolling or some poor soul forced to read in for a class assignment, but there's a grain of good question in that observation.

SPOILER if Woland frees the Master only after Margarita wished to free other person, maybe Woland wasn't in power to free the Master without that happening? we'll never know in the book, but I shall imply that the whole thing was set up precisely for that accomplishment END SPOILER.

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#146

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

msadowski wrote: post #17

Master and Margarita is one of my favorite books. First time I've read it when I was 17 or 18, then around 22 and then around 25. Each time I've read it I took something else from it and was surprised that it's the same book. Probably it has something to do with growing up. At some point I was really into Russian and Polish fantasy/sci-fi and I especially liked the social aspects of some of the stories.

I picked it up at about the same time for some English class, and I remember being a bit shocked that something so obviously Deep and Literary could be quite so much fun. It's not the only example, of course, but for me it still occupies a special intersection between "flip through it when I'm not up to anything heavy" and "reread it carefully to see something new".

I first picked up Lem not long after, and got the same feeling. I wonder if the "literary vs. genre" dichotomy is less engrained outside of English writing - or perhaps I was just mislead by our stereotypes about the weight of "Russian Literature".

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#147

Post by samat » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #36

tzmudzin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... that already realized there's nothing it can do to stop the terror machine. When you're robbed of everything, and things get worse every day, gallows humor is the only freedom you can enjoy. End even that only in private. "It is extraordinary that Bulgakov managed to write a novel that is so full of humor and wit and lightness of tone when he was living through this period", writes Groskop. I guess she missed the…

Yep, there are many scenes where you have to know the zeitgeist to understand the gravity of situation. Like when NKVD finds 400 dollars in the janitor's apartment. It's set up like a sitcom scene but the guy's going to die.

Not just him, but his family, possibly colleagues and friends would suffer.

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#148

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

habosa wrote: post #3

peatmoss wrote: post #2

The Master and Margarita is indeed a fantastic read, but there’s a dark subtext. For example, the supernatural happenings and bumps in the night from the neighboring apartment are likely Bulgakov making commentary on the purges. Bulgakov layered things. On the surface, lightheartedness. Underneath, a very bleak and tortured soul.

I read a version with enough footnotes to help me understand that underneath a funny and beautiful book is an attempt to use satire to say something serious about the regime that Bulgakov lived under. Part of what makes this book so great is how it is effective at this goal but also just fantastic literature. I'm a heavy reader but bad at reviews. All I can say is read this one. One of the best books I've ever read a…

[deleted]

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#149

Post by toyg » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

Bartweiss wrote: post #146

msadowski wrote: post #17

Master and Margarita is one of my favorite books. First time I've read it when I was 17 or 18, then around 22 and then around 25. Each time I've read it I took something else from it and was surprised that it's the same book. Probably it has something to do with growing up. At some point I was really into Russian and Polish fantasy/sci-fi and I especially liked the social aspects of some of the stories.

I picked it up at about the same time for some English class, and I remember being a bit shocked that something so obviously Deep and Literary could be quite so much fun. It's not the only example, of course, but for me it still occupies a special intersection between "flip through it when I'm not up to anything heavy" and "reread it carefully to see something new". I first picked up Lem not long after, and got the s…

Or perhaps "Russian literature" is a concept as vast as the country, and some of it transcends easy labels. Like Bulgakov, Dostoevsky was capable to write at various different levels.

Re: Life Got You Down? Time to Read The Master and Margarita

#150

Post by mindcrime » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

tk75x wrote: post #129

person_of_color wrote: post #42

Just finished The Name of The Wind and time to read this ;)

You should check out the sequel to The Name of the Wind, A Wise Man's Fear.

You should check out the sequel to The Name of the Wind, A Wise Man's Fear.

Yes, then re-read both, as well as the entire catalog of Dostoevsky, the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, The Illiad, and The Odyssey, and by then Rothfuss might actually be finished with the third book in the trilogy...