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Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

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Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#21

Post by diminoten »

m_ke wrote: post #4
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I'd argue that python needs an async django, which will hopefully be django in a few releases.

Yeah I mean the async landscape for web frameworks isn't exactly as populated as the "yet another web framework" statement makes it seem.

This is how we get to async Django, and I think that's part of why Tom Christie is helping out. I also doubt Reitz thinks this is the usurper of Django anyway. It's more than an experiment, but less than "the new One True Way".

As for ASGI python web frameworks, there are no mature winners in the space yet (compare uvicorn's quickstart example to this project's before you throw that project out as an example). This is Truly New Shit, and I'm pumped these two devs are working on it together.

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#23

Post by diminoten »

biggio wrote: post #12

I used to hire people who have created their own frameworks like this one and our codebase were so bloated. At one point I had to let people go and spend the next year removing tens of thousands of lines of useless nonsense. Since that lesson, I look at candidates Github and if I see a custom built framework, I pass, regardless of how good they performed.

This is an insane notion, and I don't mean "insane" as a hyperbole, but literally not sane.

Honestly, I very much doubt what you've written is even true, it's that nuts.

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#24

Post by [deleted] »

basil-rash wrote: post #13
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I've started to wonder what the place of Python is at all. Machine Learning has become deeply coupled with Python, so you have that side of things, but that's not my personal area of interest. People say that it's good for "short scripts", but whenever I decide to write something in Python instead of TS, I'm instantly met with so many runtime type errors that I wonder how people can honestly believe lack of static ty…

[deleted]

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#25

Post by jklehm »

m_ke wrote: post #4
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I'd argue that python needs an async django, which will hopefully be django in a few releases.

If you can manage with Flask there's Quart [1]

[1] https://gitlab.com/pgjones/quart

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#26

Post by yla92 »

m_ke wrote: post #4
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I'd argue that python needs an async django, which will hopefully be django in a few releases.

Tornado[0] is not on per when it comes to features richness of Django. Yet, it's async and a joy to write. You should check it out if you have not. I would like to hear more from others about Tornado vs other Python frameworks as well.

[0]: http://www.tornadoweb.org/en/stable/

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#27

Post by Koshkin »

setr wrote: post #7

Maybe I’ll accept non-monospace fonts for code. You get the right ligatures, decent kerning, the softer touch of sans-serif... it has some possibility But psuedo-cursive strings? This font that looks like a retro emulator using a vectorizing filter? This is too much. I’m not happy about this development at all.

> non-monospace fonts for code

A proportional font helps when working with codebases that tend to have long lines (e.g. those written in Java or C#).

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#28

Post by biggio »

diminoten wrote: post #23
biggio wrote: post #12

I used to hire people who have created their own frameworks like this one and our codebase were so bloated. At one point I had to let people go and spend the next year removing tens of thousands of lines of useless nonsense. Since that lesson, I look at candidates Github and if I see a custom built framework, I pass, regardless of how good they performed.

This is an insane notion, and I don't mean "insane" as a hyperbole, but literally not sane. Honestly, I very much doubt what you've written is even true, it's that nuts.

I would say I can predict with relative accuracy how bloated a codebase is by looking at how many custom frameworks I find at team member profiles.

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#29

Post by diminoten »

basil-rash wrote: post #13
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I've started to wonder what the place of Python is at all. Machine Learning has become deeply coupled with Python, so you have that side of things, but that's not my personal area of interest. People say that it's good for "short scripts", but whenever I decide to write something in Python instead of TS, I'm instantly met with so many runtime type errors that I wonder how people can honestly believe lack of static ty…

Coming at it from the other side (Python has put food on my table for ~7 years now), it's not the "short scripts" that make Python great to develop in, it's that it can handle the growth of your app.

Writing scientific/academic code and writing business application code is somewhat different, but the speed at which you can develop and maintain Python code is very high, as is the volume of aid available should you run into trouble.

I don't think there's a language out there that's both easy to initially pick up and as well supported by its community as Python. The speed at which you can develop application code is astounding, once you get the hang of it and the noise out of the way (CI/CD, code coverage, unit and integration testing, a general familiarity with the major frameworks, etc.), and the maintenance is... tolerable.

Re: Responder: A familiar HTTP Service Framework

#30

Post by crgwbr »

m_ke wrote: post #4
monkmartinez wrote: post #2

Pretty cool, but I can't shake the feeling that the first example looks an awful lot like javascript... Perhaps... Maybe ... its because I have been "cheating" on Python with JS. I mean, it is a pain in the booty to code up a web app in python without JS. Try to code a mobile app with Python and Kivy... not all that fun (not practical). In less than a week with React, I have done both. So... why not just skip Python…

I'd argue that python needs an async django, which will hopefully be django in a few releases.

Django’s channels project actually gets pretty close to this. It’s not flawless, but it makes it fairly simple to support websockets, etc.
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