Paul Allen has died
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Re: Paul Allen has died
#302I am guessing that most people here have apparently forgotten about the patent troll aspect of Paul Allen: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100827/12001710802.shtml Now I am sure there are those that will think it's in bad taste to bring this up. However I am not saying this to family or friends at a funeral. I am merely raising it so people can stop lionizing him because he was a co-founder of Microsoft. https://…
I'm genuinely interested in how you think Paul Allen's untimely death should be discussed on HN. Do you think he's getting too much respect, with the HN black bar and the 1300+ upvotes? How much should his post-Microsoft accomplishments be negated enough by Microsoft's bad deeds?
I don't have a particular opinion on how it should be 'discussed'. People can pay whatever respect that they want. Incidentally I do like the way you posed that question. In a respectful way and not attacking as some of the other comments (as well as replies on a similar comment I made). People who say things like 'so what have you done???'. Like unless you are that great nothing you say matters you peon. I find it strange when people will defend a person like Allen and trash someone (like me) who simply states an opinion when we know that Allen would not have given any of us the time of day or cared about us in any way. On the other hand many of us here would actually do something for a random HN stranger or help if they could (don't mean jump on the railroad tracks kind of help).
The 'upvotes' don't mean much either. Most likely many of those upvotes don't know about the early days of Microsoft (sans Allen of course). Microsoft is the 'don't be evil' company that Google was talking about. They would and will do anything to squash competition (Netscape only one example) that they could. Antitrust lawsuit by government. Etc. So the money that Allen used came from that company and that way of doing business.. Fine. I don't take a position on that just to stop lionizing the guy as if he is some kind of saint. Noting also that he is being celebrated not because he died and gave money away but because he was linked to a tech company that we all know (and some of us hate). That's all. When does HN talk about this type of thing? So the irony is that he had a very small part of the money that Msft made over the years that he gave away. He didn't work there for that long. And guess what? Despite what anyone thinks he is not 10 times as great (just like Woz) than dozens of people on HN who were simply not in the right place at the right time. So we are really celebrating luck more than anything.
> How much should his post-Microsoft accomplishments be negated enough by Microsoft's bad deeds?
Once again and in particular it's this 'fawning' that people do. It's over the top.
Re: Paul Allen has died
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
As it should be.
Indeed though if a bunch of different users are doing it, you might want to allow it with a citation needed marker. I've been to so many articles with a "citation needed" marker for years, but surely it would not be too complex for someone to find a source.
Re: Paul Allen has died
#3042 weeks ago: https://twitter.com/PaulGAllen/status/1046864324310982668 > Some personal news: Recently, I learned the non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma I battled in 2009 has returned. I’ve begun treatment & my doctors are optimistic that I will see a good result. Appreciate the support I’ve received & count on it as I fight this challenge Just now: https://twitter.com/PaulGAllen/status/1051958128885940226
Wow can your condition go south that quickly?
Re: Paul Allen has died
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm genuinely interested in how you think Paul Allen's untimely death should be discussed on HN. Do you think he's getting too much respect, with the HN black bar and the 1300+ upvotes? How much should his post-Microsoft accomplishments be negated enough by Microsoft's bad deeds?
> I'm genuinely interested in how you think Paul Allen's untimely death should be discussed on HN. I don't have a particular opinion on how it should be 'discussed'. People can pay whatever respect that they want. Incidentally I do like the way you posed that question. In a respectful way and not attacking as some of the other comments (as well as replies on a similar comment I made). People who say things like 'so w…
Re: Paul Allen has died
#306Re: Paul Allen has died
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm genuinely interested in how you think Paul Allen's untimely death should be discussed on HN. I don't have a particular opinion on how it should be 'discussed'. People can pay whatever respect that they want. Incidentally I do like the way you posed that question. In a respectful way and not attacking as some of the other comments (as well as replies on a similar comment I made). People who say things like 'so w…
That's a fair reply, and I don't necessarily disagree with you (I don't have a strong opinion or much knowledge about Paul Allen in general). However, I think it's a given that people reflexively frown upon speaking ill of the recently (non-criminal) dead. Part of that may be irrational sentiment, but part of it -- IMHO -- is because after a grace period, society is generally OK with criticizing the dead into perpetu…
I do not feel bad for Lisa Jobs one iota. Plenty of people without rich or famous parents get treated much worse than she did. And those people aren't whining (all the way to the bank). Note that Lisa regardless of whether she got any of Steve's money did get a benefit from being associated with him. That is more than the rest of the people in the world with a parental situation of various types get. So I do not feel sorry for her and that even assumes the nominal tails that she told are even true. Guess what? My Dad is gruff as well. I learned to deal with it. I don't think I am unique in that respect. And I wasn't around much for my kids growing up. They were not impacted by it.
Secondly I honestly don't care if Steve was an insensitive asshole. Plenty of nobodies have to deal with this type of person and nobody will even care to listen to them. They will say 'yeah my boss is a dick as well'. And then they will be on to the next topic. Not only that but the truth is nobody is forced to work for Steve and if you get to the point in life of working for Steve you can work anywhere. Most of the other people (who have an abusive situation) don't have that option. That doesn't make it right but quite frankly it's not the end of the world.
And besides he put out great products. I am glad he busted everyone's ass and I get to use what he and his hard driven (and abused) team created. I don't care that he hurt their feelings. Deal with it. I have had my feelings hurt and so have you most likely, right? You deal with it or you try to move to a better situation. That is life.
You know if you need a brain operation and you find the best brain surgeon you are not going to not hire him or her if you find out he or she is a bit mean to his or her employees and/or ignores his or her kids. You will say 'I am dying and I don't care about that'. It's easy for people to say what Steve should have been. But honesty I am just glad he made good products. Most people will not agree with this because they think he could be both the creative guy that he was and nice and calm at the same time.
True about the grace period. However the exception to that is a direct attack on someone close to you in order to defend someone who is not even close or related to you. It goes like this: You are talking to a good friend, a co-worker, relative and so on. They hold a view that is different than yours on a topic. So fine tell them what you think and be honest. But don't do it in a way that screams 'you are wrong for the way you feel and you suck'. Don't get angry and don't get mad at them. Why? If not obvious because they are close to you and the topic or person you are discussing is not. You need them and no sense in burning a bridge.
By the way if you don't remember the early days (because of your age I suppose?) you will not really seat of the pants understand what a 'dick' (for lack of a better way to put it) Bill Gates was. Sure now he looks like 'older wise guy who helps mankind' but he really did anything and everything in order to get whatever business he could at the expense of anyone. I am not once again saying that he shouldn't have done that. But he was not a nice guy and Msft was not a 'nice' corporation and by the way the amount of aggravation that OS created was truly staggering. How many people suffered because of that crap that they turned out? You'd have to live through it (as a 'normal person' not a techie who benefited from the problems because they were paid to solve them) to truly understand this.
Re: Paul Allen has died
#308I KILLED PAUL ALLEN with AN AXE in the FACE, his body his dissolving in a BATHTUB in Hell's Kitchen.