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Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

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Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#31

Post by bigmattystyles »

chrisacky wrote: post #29
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

Isn't your attitude basically. "whataboutism" [1]. The journey to change starts with a single action... don't disagree with the hypocrisy, but change can't happen if it's prevented from operating in some circumstances in a silo. [1] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Not really, whataboutism is excusing one by pointing out the other. This is saying don’t forget about X as well if we clean house of morally questionable sources of money.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#32

Post by ganeshkrishnan »

mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

And Australia: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/20/australia/nauru-children-...

Children have died in the detention center with government refusing them even medical care. A 16 year old died few months back waiting for his parents. No media or press is allowed on the island.

To top it off one of their senator wanted "final solution" for their immigrants and this week the government voted for "it's ok to be White" because of racism and discrimination against white race.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#33

Post by 394549 »

cat199 wrote: post #24
jballanc wrote: post #5

I doubt this will be a popular opinion on HN, but...this is what comes of libertarianism. What is a government other than a group of people who agree to work together toward certain goals and hold each other accountable to certain moral and ethical standards? Yet somehow, "government" has become the enemy, a thing to be done away with or reduced in scope. When you do that, and replace government with "voted for with…

not a libertarian, but what do the alleged actions of of a theocratic monarchy have to do with the potential excesses of free market capitalism?

> not a libertarian, but what do the alleged actions of of a theocratic monarchy have to do with the potential excesses of free market capitalism?

Probably because there's profit to be had in making deals with that theocratic monarchy. It's the same thing with China. If you're optimizing for market success as you are in free market capitalism, you're incentivized to overlook things that stand in the way of that success, like the immorality of making deals with foreign authoritarians.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#35

Post by thatoneyouthrow »

gcb0 wrote: post #20
qaq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the fact that SoftBank dwarfs all other funds (even combined) is it a realistic scenario?

who are softbanks stakeholders?

Masayoshi Son

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/10/16/business/softba...

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#36

Post by vkou »

supercanuck wrote: post #14
enraged_camel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How easy or even feasible is it to track where the money is coming from? Let's say you're a startup and a VC wants to invest in you. Can you ask for that information?

Or they could go public and avoid the problem entirely. Let's not pretend there aren't other alternatives. Public, Open markets are there for a reason. They cost more, but are more ethical.

> They cost more, but are more ethical.

They aren't.

If you go public, you have zero control of who owns your company. It's not more ethical - it just launders your ethical responsibility.

There are plenty of people or organizations - who also happen to have a horrific ethical record - who can buy shares in a private company. And there's nothing you can do to stop that.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#37

Post by meuk »

This is exactly the reason why the Saudi-Arabian government will most likely get away with killing and probably torturing an innocent man. This is absolutely unheard of in any developed country.

Saudi-Arabia is filthy rich, and apparently, that makes murdering an American citizen on Turkish ground legal. I feel disgusted, and everyone who does any business whatsoever with the Saudi-Arabian government is a hypocrite.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#39

Post by mrkstu »

chrisacky wrote: post #29
mrkstu wrote: post #26

I hope everyone who condemns the Saudis and those doing business w/them are doing the same with those doing so with China. China regularly disappears its citizens, and now openly is sending them by the hundreds of thousands to re-education camps. Xi and Prince Salman are two sides of the same coin and if you're comfortable with one and not the other, you're just virtue signaling. I'm just a IT guy at a business that…

Isn't your attitude basically. "whataboutism" [1]. The journey to change starts with a single action... don't disagree with the hypocrisy, but change can't happen if it's prevented from operating in some circumstances in a silo. [1] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

I was going to proactively address this but hoped it wouldn't have been necessary. In this case the parallels are so stark that it practically screams out its own blatancy.

Google's planned submission to China's regime is just the beginning of where things have been are are going towards with Xi's China.

Since the Prince's extralegal extortion of the uber rich class in Saudi Arabia its been obvious that he's been concentrating power in his hands like Xi.

Turkey, Russia, Syria, Hungary, China, Venezuela- oppressive strong-men governments are rising like floods in narrow canyons after a storm. It is time that we identify the systemic rise of these Putin clones and decide on a coordinated and consistent response.

Re: Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups

#40

Post by forapurpose »

vkou wrote: post #27
supercanuck wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are comparing the CIA/DOD with the Saudi Kingdom? Really? One still answers to a democratically, elected president and Congress. One does not. This isn't comparable.

I don't care who they answer to, I care about what they do. The CIA has a history of torture and terrorism. The DOD has most recently, caused the deaths of a couple hundred thousand people in the Middle East. Just because you live in a democracy doesn't mean you can wash your hands of it. The British empire was a parliamentary democracy, and it has done a lot of truly abhorrent stuff over the 18th and 19th centures.…

> The British empire was a parliamentary democracy, and it has done a lot of truly abhorrent stuff over the 18th and 19th centures.

A detail: They had a monarch with real power in the 18th and 19th centuries, as well as a parliament.

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